Posted on Jun 29, 2014
MAJ Deputy Director, Combat Casualty Care Research Program
13.4K
127
88
18
18
0
Textbooks.resized
As someone who travels a lot, I'm often shocked and saddened by the level of willful scientific ignorance in the US. I don't see this in most other countries (US and the middle east are the 2 biggest offenders in science denial). The sad part is that it's willful, not incidental. There are 23 MILLION articles on PUBMED, and 500,000 new articles published yearly using the same, peer reviewed and scientific standards. Yet the only articles ever questioned are:

1) Global warming/climate change
2) Homosexuality
3) Autism/vaccines
4) Evolution

A few facts:

- Science is not a collection of knowledge, it's a method. Science is the act of collecting data, vetting data, and verifying data to provide insights into our physical reality.

- There is NO POSSIBILITY of a conspiracy in science. Everything is peer reviewed and results are replicated. If they can't be replicated, they are discarded. Even the data that is published is analyzed by independent sources to assure that it is done properly.

I find it amusing that when science deniers go to the doc with diabetes or heart disease or a tumor or anything else, science works just fine. It's only when PERSONAL beliefs are involved that they suddenly think that there's some kind of "conspiracy". Science deniers are just like 9-11 truthers - they willfully ignore facts and deny reality so that they can continue with beliefs that science doesn't support.

The scientific method has provided everything around you. Why do you think that in just a few areas - namely those you disagree with - we're somehow in concert together just to run a scam?
Posted in these groups: Science logo ScienceResearch logo Research
Edited 10 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 32
PO2 Steven Erickson
7
7
0
A bit of background: Navy Nuke, BS in Physics (Cosmology / Particle Physics), Born-Again Christian.

Major, I agree wholeheartedly that "science" is a process, not a collection of facts and results (hence the "scientific method" is perfection, "science" is incomplete). Herein lies the problem with some of the topics you pointed out. All theories remain theories, unless PROVEN to be a "law" (e.g., the three "Laws of Motion" and the three "Laws of Thermodynamics"). As theories - whether they are well-supported or not - they cannot be treated as irrefutable.

But why not? Because all that's required to posit a refutation is to find ONE instance where observation does not match the hypothesis. Such ideas are relegated to status as a theory - not as a law - and therefore still subject to modification. And yet, we treat theories as laws unless proven otherwise!

We often hear "[insert hot topic here] is a fact." Really? For example, can we really say that 100 years of research and data make human-generated climate change irrefutable? A true follower of the scientific method has to "No. At least not yet!" And this is not the same as proving a negative (which is, as has been stated, essentially impossible). Every time a theory is questioned, it's the theorist's responsibility to DEFEND the theory, not to deny the question outright.

The problem today is that people/groups/organizations have based their reputations (and funding) on RESULTS rather than the SCIENTIFIC METHOD. The scientific method demands that when observation is clearly contradictory to theory, the theory must be reviewed, modified or abandoned. This does NOT happen with climate change, evolution, sexual orientation, etc. Too many people are too heavily invested on BOTH sides. So arises the name-calling.

When Einstein questioned quantum mechanics, Heisenberg and Schrodinger didn't denounce Albert as a "quantum denier" - they actively and professionally answered his questions about the theory. That does NOT happen today.

These theories you mentioned are not debated by scientists - we have scientific experts who defend their theories like vultures defend their carrion.

And finally - in response to your conspiracy point: Theoretically, you're right. Practically, see my comments above. We've all heard - or said - "When all else fails, manipulate the data..."
(7)
Comment
(0)
PO2 Steven Erickson
PO2 Steven Erickson
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) I stand corrected! 7:^D

You are exactly right, in that Laws make 100% accurate predictions, whereas theories explain existing - and predict - future observations.

My point was that we don't truly engage in the scientific method with these highly publicized and polarizing topics. I was taught that when the theory misses in its predictions of observations, the data AND the theory must be revisited. The scientific method fails when theory is defended without full disposition of contrary observation.

I'm disappointed when people/groups/organizations attack those who posit contrary observations as uneducated, uninformed, ignorant, etc., rather than addressing the possible ramifications to the theory.
(4)
Reply
(0)
SGT Team Leader
SGT (Join to see)
>1 y
I would have to agree PO2 Steven Erickson. And that is what drew me to science in the first place...the beauty of "filling in the gaps" and the consequences (good and bad) of when we do.

I majored in molecular biology and sociology for precisely that reason.
(2)
Reply
(0)
SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) PO2 Steven Erickson Steve good work on that!!! And Erin the gaps are important, rather than filling them with mud instead a mortar which always works better.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Col Joseph Lenertz
Col Joseph Lenertz
8 y
PO2 Steven Erickson Well said! I attempted a similar explanation, then read yours and SSgt (Join to see) 's, and found my own response lacking.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Capt Richard I P.
6
6
0
MAJ (Join to see) Sir, I welcome your post and concur with the advocacy of scientific method. I recognize your confusion about people's beliefs on some issues, particularly ones that seem to be hot button political issues with strong findings on one side of the debate and weak findings on the other. I would recommend reducing the personal nature of the language, it seems a lot of people often take offense at many of your posts.

I really don't have the time to become conversationally intelligent about most topics of heavy scientific debate. I sincerely doubt that anyone on this forum is actively engaged in original research on any of the issues at the highest peer reviewed levels either. Therefore we are all choosing to place our trust in others. It is the process of how we choose others to believe that merits some examination. What relationships, biases, education systems, thought processes do we imbue with trust as a proxy for our own understanding?

As an example: I'll trust an Marine Corporal who has seen combat to tell me about the personal experience of war before I trust a PhD Professor who has carefully studied books like The Red Badge of Courage and The Forgotten Soldier. The Cpl has the markers of personal experience that in this case supersede training and method. But I will trust a LtCol Dave Grossman, PhD. to tell me about a broader description of the average personal experience of war more than that Corporal. He has been in the military, and rigorously studied the scientific Psychological method and interviewed countless Veterans, he can expand beyond the individual and do so with his methods, and communicate them effectively to a broader range of people. He has every marker I trust.
(6)
Comment
(0)
MSG Brad Sand
MSG Brad Sand
>1 y
Capt Richard I P.

You are right, and you were right. Thank you for directing me to this post.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
>1 y
MSG Brad Sand Glad you liked it, and took the time to find it. Thanks for keeping an open mind.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CDR Thomas Gatliffe
5
5
0
Within the American Statistical Association, we have a saying "Without verifiable data, you are just another agenda-driven S.O.B. with an opinion."
However, I do take some issue with the assertion that "There is NO POSSIBILITY of a conspiracy in science." Based on personal experience, I think that is a somewhat naive belief in the spotless character and integrity of scientists and scientific publications. As one who has both been peer reviewed and been a peer reviewer, I would only agree with that statement if one is assured that the peer reviewing is both totally independent and totally impartial (both qualities are as rare today as honesty in a "successful" politician). It is difficult to keep one's own ideas and understandings from biasing your review either in unduly supportive or adversarial interpretations. It is orders of magnitude more difficult if your own research funding would be potentially impacted. I have been witness to at least one instance where all the "peer" reviewing was performed by other members of the same department at a university that depended heavily on continued government grants that were (unstated but known) highly predicated upon demonstrating the desired result. Often the raw data is withheld as being proprietary to the funding agency and not available for independent verification/replication. Granted, eventually the "truth" may become known but the "conspirators" count on that occurring after the funding stream has gone away.
(5)
Comment
(0)
PO1 John Pokrzywa
PO1 John Pokrzywa
>1 y
Sir, my little sister is a senior scientist in her organization (PhD etc etc) and you could almost be an echo of her concerns. Agree completely.

There is no "infallible science" when all the researchers know that if their research supports one outcome, they stay employed and funding continues, but if not... you know the rest.
I've heard some horror stories about schools and companies scraping for finding; so when there's a large political motivation for one outcome, I am immediately suspicious of all the supporting... research.
Man caused global warming is one such case. All the researchers supporting it worked for the UN and government organizations. The UN stands to gain a considerable amount of leverage if global warming is supported (some places are considering taxing people for breathing now). Trouble is, independent researchers are questioning their conclusions, and that is without knowing the researchers' hacked emails revealed they were fudging the data. The politicians (*not* scientists) then decry the dissenters as if they were heretics proclaiming the Earth isn't the center of the universe. Which also makes me pause.
Scientists are people too. They want to stay employed. It's not the first time somebody toed the company line. The scientific method may not be biased, but people are.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close