Posted on Nov 21, 2013
Sex Crimes in the Military, What's the Solution?
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The Military is know for having steeper punishments for certain crimes than the civilian world, therefore I believe the punishment for rape should be the death penalty.<br><br>Furthermore, if you are found guilty of falsely accusing someone of rape, the punishment should be no less than life in prison and possibly the death penalty as well. My reasoning for this is that if you are willing to try and cost someone their life under false pretense you deserve the same punishment. <br><br>What does the group think? How do we solve this problem? Can we solve this problem?<br>
SHARP
UCMJ
Crime
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 14
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What's the solution? Deterrence with swift and just punishment for convicted! Punishment should be 10-15 years or more. Do not simply discharge them to be societies problem.
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MSgt (Join to see)
This right here. The only way a predator will be deterred if is he knows the hammer of god will be brought down on his face should he step out of line.
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I don't have the answer, but that surely isn't it.
Both reporting processes and the system for punishing at the harrassment level need to be improved first. If we address sex crimes better at lower levels, we will likely see lower rates of the more severe crimes.
What we really need is a culture adjustment, not a more severe punishment adjustment.
Let's treat our brothers and sisters with respect.
Both reporting processes and the system for punishing at the harrassment level need to be improved first. If we address sex crimes better at lower levels, we will likely see lower rates of the more severe crimes.
What we really need is a culture adjustment, not a more severe punishment adjustment.
Let's treat our brothers and sisters with respect.
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CPT (Join to see)
A culture adjustment is exactly what is in order. I believe that the one thing we can change is our environment. Leaders need to comb through their soldier's areas for sexually-charged material and rebuke, if not reprimand, those that are "talking" or "telling jokes" that are sexually charged. The other day, my platoon sergeant chewed out this sergeant who had this decal on his truck that read, "she rather be Cumming rather than stroking". Now this sergeant totally deserved this because my platoon sergeant advised him the week before to take it down. We obviously he didn't listen and suffered one of the greatest public ass-chewing I have ever seen in my entire 12-year career.
It's these sergeants, soldiers, and officers that need the attitude adjustment. Having a daughter myself, I find it despicable how some of them talk about women. Why is it so hard for these men to give women the dignity that they are due? Men need to stop thinking of women as disposable pleasures and start viewing them as the soldier by their side.
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SGT Craig Northacker
Good discussion here. A singular moment of definition was lost when the command failed to do the right thing with Sinclair in the 82nd. His assertions were immaterial and should have been disallowed. The question was did or did he not do it, and was it a violation or not? Next, were any command members hurt or killed because of his failure to stay focused on the war at hand? His punishment was a farce, and I suspect he was treated far differently than lower ranks. His case now sets precedent in future cases. What if the young lady were your daughter or sister?
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SGT Craig Northacker
Taking it a step further, if the young lady had been my daughter, you can rest assured the Congressional caucus would have heard from me, Sinclair's complete records would be public knowledge, and I would confront him face to face - all in a legal context. I put my M-16 barrel in an accused rapist's mouth when I was in and told him I would be his next and final court of inquiry so he wouldn't play his dirty game on my watch and hurt any more girls.
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Sir, I agree with the first punishment for convicted offender of rape, but at the same time I also believe that you need evidence that will prove them guilty "without a shadow of a doubt." Witnesses lie, so they're no good, it doesn't matter who it is. But, what doesn't lie is DNA. If you can find a good amount of DNA inside a victim then that would be your rock solid proof that something illegal happened combined with other aggravating factors. For example, would you send someone to prison based solely that there was evidence of unprotected sex? No, you wouldn't, but in a majority of cases it's forced so I would say there needs to be clothing damage such as rips, tears, or holes in the fabric. There are people who have been found posthumously innocent after their wrongful executions and I don't agree with that, but I do agree with the death penalty in and of itself. If we can get rid of that one thing as much as possible I agree with your first sentence suggestion. As for wrongful accusation of rape/sexual assault, I don't think they warrant Life in Prison, but they do warrant probably a good 15-25 years if found guilty filing a false report, wrongful accusation against a neighbor, and perjury, also I'd introduce a new charge and I'd call it "Attempted false imprisonment of another."
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I would argue we are already doing what we need to do. Anyone who has taken a stats class can drive a Mac truck thru the numbers going around for comparing apples to oranges. The military has a problem with sexual assault but we punish a higher percentage of offenders because under UCMJ we can punish without proving a case beyond a reasonable doubt with NJP. Cases are punished in the military where no arrest would be made under civilian law. If a leader is trying to suppress or is involved in a case than they shouldn't be a leader anymore.
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Sir,<br><br>BLUF: Everyone views the Army (or military as a whole) as a family.<br><br>Based on my vast amount of military experience as a cadet (sarcasm), I strongly agree with the whole push about how we are all a big family. I don't know if they give this kind of speech in the real Army, but here, one of the best SHARP briefs we had was one where the CSM of Cadets, CSM Rob Duane (SF), asked us if we would make advancements on or harass a blood brother/sister. Of course, everyone responded "no." CSM Duane told us, again and again, that we are not just coworkers, but a family. The people to your left and right are your brothers and sisters whom you should protect and look out for, and if there is a remark/advance you wouldn't make toward your brother or sister, or wouldn't want someone else to make toward your brother or sister, you shouldn't make it toward your fellow Soldier.<br><br>I'm not sure how it is in the real Army (would anyone care to comment?) but here at West Point, I think cadets don't quite view each other as family just yet - if this changes, I think that the sexual assault/harassment problem would be greatly reduced.<br>
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Cadet CPL (Join to see)
SFC Baber,<br>They do. We are told the exact numbers at every brief actually, even when we had only one incident happen, we still got a stern talking to from our CSM. As I stated at the end of my first response, I do not think that cadets have embraced the CSM's message yet. Do you think that if this idea were more closely followed by cadets/the Army, the number of SHARP incidents would be reduced significantly?<br><br>Thank you for your time, SFC - I greatly appreciate the opportunity to speak with NCOs, or anyone on the enlisted side, since we are very top-heavy here as I'm sure you know.<br>
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
Cadet Nathman, thanks for the points you made -- it's awesome to see a future officer getting engaged in this issue, because it's not going anywhere anytime soon. When you commission, you will deal with issues like this as a 2LT and beyond, especially given the DoD's public focus on fixing them. I do agree with your 'family' point, but I'll add that unfortunately, there are bad actors out there in almost every unit who see the military with a 'What can this do for me?' attitude. It's terrible for a unit but it's out there and it's a big leadership challenge to create a team culture strong enough to crowd out bad actors. Anyway, your point shows a lot of maturity for someone your age, so keep up the hard work at USMA and keep challenging your comfort zone with issues like this.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
SFC Baber, there are different ways to look at the point you made about USMA, the academies, etc. So, I'll play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. It's possible that incidents at USMA are highest because USMA's culture has the best reporting channels and victim support culture of any academy. So in this scenario, let's say every academy has 10 incidents per year. If all 10 of those are reported at USMA, that is a reporting status of 100% and we should APPLAUD that part of the system. You may be comparing percentages on the reporting side, not the actual reality side, which would (in theory) invalidate part of your argument. Anyway, of course we all agree that sexual assaults, etc. are horrible and need to be dealt with. Thanks for posting!
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SFC James Baber
<p>Cadet Nathman, I do think that the idea should be pushed and followed up on more as we do hear through unconventional channels about it than mainstream media. I hope it is and will be more closely acknowledged and viewed even stronger by the cadets that receive the briefings and not just be a check the block on their part since they are our future leaders within the Army.</p><p> </p><p>CPT Kletzing,</p><p>I do also look at the reality and understand about the percentages as well, but we also all know about the environment of the system and how many things are overlooked or covered up especially on the officer side compared to the enlisted side, not always, but the statistics do show otherwise as to the reality as well. I don't say I agree with it, but it is a severe problem that makes for bad press and feelings towards an already black marked considered "good ole boy" system that is prevalent even more in the USMA over active duty. It may not be popular but it is there. Thank you for the support of my opinions. </p><p> </p>
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The U.S. Military hasn't executed anyone since 1961. All but one of the 160 who have been executed since 1942 were executed for rape and/or murder (85 for murder, 53 for rape, and 21 for both).
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<p>Sir,</p><p> </p><p>We all sit through our SHARP briefings and look at the slides and listen to the instuctor talk about the alarming stats in regards to SHARP related incidents. Then we leave and go about our daily routines and the briefing was nothing more than a box that was checked for an annual training requirement. We as a force need to act when we see or here of someone violating another Soldier. Soldiers see things all the time, but rarely do they step up and tell their battle buddy that they are wrong. We have always been taught to watch the buddy to your left and to your right in the fox hole. The same mentality needs to be used while we aren't in the fox hole. </p><p> </p><p>I don't think that the crime of rape should carry the death penalty because with a lengthy jail sentence they will be victims of their own crime while in prison. I do agree that if someone accuses someone of a serious crime under false pretense that they should be punished for the same length of time as if the charge were true. It's to easy for someone to falsely accuse someone because they aren't afraid of consequenses.</p><p> </p>
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CPT (Join to see)
SGT,
I would argue that the appeals process would allow plenty of time for the convicted to get a dose of their own medicine. Further studies seem to show that it is next to impossible to reform sex offenders so letting them out isn't an option. Thus the death penalty seems like the reasonable solution.
On the false reporting side, I wish the US would adopt the English concept of 'loser pays' I think it would reduce law suits here quite a bit.
I would argue that the appeals process would allow plenty of time for the convicted to get a dose of their own medicine. Further studies seem to show that it is next to impossible to reform sex offenders so letting them out isn't an option. Thus the death penalty seems like the reasonable solution.
On the false reporting side, I wish the US would adopt the English concept of 'loser pays' I think it would reduce law suits here quite a bit.
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I'm not a fan of the death penalty for any crime. However, regardless of how severe the punishment is, we will get no closer to a solution if we allow the perpetrators CO to intervene and basically exonerate him. The CO should be able to bring charges against the suspect, but should have no say in the outcome of anything dealing with severe assaults and sexual assaults. Until the military addresses this issue, I'm not comfortable with my daughter or anybody's daughter joining the military.
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The bottom line is that such actions have no place in the Army at all.
It doesn't matter, whether the individual is enlisted, NCO or any kind of Officer.
They all need to go
It doesn't matter, whether the individual is enlisted, NCO or any kind of Officer.
They all need to go
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SPC Gary Basom
A dishonorable discharge is a very serious possibility along with the prison time for these offenses.
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I'll tell you what's NOT the solution...quarterly SHARP Training. Although SHARP training will assist Soldiers in identifying SHARP signs, it'll never eliminate/reduce sex crimes...if someone without moral values is presented an opportunity, they will take it.
To address your post, NO...conviction of rape does not equate to the death penalty. Too many are being accused/convicted and later overturned.
To address your post, NO...conviction of rape does not equate to the death penalty. Too many are being accused/convicted and later overturned.
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