Posted on Apr 12, 2014
Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?
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So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Have the lines between male and female been erased? Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.
ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.
*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 458
Men should be in standards the way women can, or we could all do what the navy does and women get a super short hair cut so that we still have the "hazing" as the men do. I also feel women should not be allowed to dye their hair in basic. You know your date in advance, get back to natural and dye it again after you get through basic.
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It has been awhile since I was in basic training. The shaving of the head in more out of necessity, you don't have the luxury of getting a hair cut every week to keep a haircut in regs.
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CPT William Jones
Been a real log time since I was in basic (1964)but we got haircuts once a week. And they were pushing more then than now.And too a shaved head is faddish and not allowed under AR 670-1
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I found that for Infantry basic and AIT shaved head worked very good. If the females want to get in the Combat arms then HEAD shaved otherwise within standards.
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I believe in boot-camp both men and women should have their heads shaved for the reason of hygiene and easier maintenance.All the combat and field training a recruit goes through.
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LCpl Jason Clark
There is also a psychological part to the shaving of recruits heads, uniforms and use of last name only. The similar they are with one another the better the unit cohesiveness, during the breakdown phase this helps with teamwork and loyality development.
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I'm shocked this topic has spun up such a massive response! I finally bucked up on hazing topic and disagreed due to it's connection with our mission, WAR COMBAT, along with Civilians on here too! Hazing discussion now, I'm a vet now, but it's huge!
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SSG Roberts this is not to offend you at all, but hear I go Ok! I posted a question 2 days ago about I WANT TO EXPATRIATE THIS COUNTRY TO LIVE IN BELIZE, COSTA RICA OR SOUTH AMERICA AND SOME REASONS WHY! ZERO RESPONSE? I don't want points, I'm asking for dialogue, advice, or thoughts on why I don't belong, can't afford to pay PAIN DR $250 month office visit and $350 Oxycodone prescription cuz VA KILLED PAIN MEDS ON US!
Hair length for Female Soldiers in Basic debate.....? Of course it's obvious I'm referring more to veteran/disabled vet type issues here and thought it would peak some serious interest but hair is on front-page news, lol! I'm sure a few posts will come through on my strange question :).
Hair length for Female Soldiers in Basic debate.....? Of course it's obvious I'm referring more to veteran/disabled vet type issues here and thought it would peak some serious interest but hair is on front-page news, lol! I'm sure a few posts will come through on my strange question :).
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SGT Shon D. Hill
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/do-fellow-combat-veterans-want-to-expatriate-to-another-country
Awesome! I think I'm getting proficient with I-phone copy, paste, etc, LOL! Thanks for asking Vickie :) yea the link or copy from My discussion above. I know ppl post so many questions and such, I just noticed that the moderators or same folks always get big discussions, I only want a small one ;). I think it may appear like a "dis functional vet" type question, lol, but I'm hoping it can be something more than that. Would enjoy your thoughts as Active duty and you always keep it real! Shon (first name since off-duty, right?).
Awesome! I think I'm getting proficient with I-phone copy, paste, etc, LOL! Thanks for asking Vickie :) yea the link or copy from My discussion above. I know ppl post so many questions and such, I just noticed that the moderators or same folks always get big discussions, I only want a small one ;). I think it may appear like a "dis functional vet" type question, lol, but I'm hoping it can be something more than that. Would enjoy your thoughts as Active duty and you always keep it real! Shon (first name since off-duty, right?).

Do fellow combat veterans want to expatriate to another country? | RallyPoint
I'm going deeper now, Doc Hill here ready for serious discussion here! I don't fit in anywhere, I'm tired of direction much in our country has taken in general, and after spending a lot of time in 3rd world or developing countries, I sincerely desire to move to a place like Belize, Costa Rica, or South America. I worked hard to learn Spanish, blonde blue eyes notwithstanding, do you feel same often? Do many of us lose our "Identity" here...
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
SGT Shon D. Hill - Not sure what the original post was regarding becoming an expat or how it relates to boot camp haircuts. I have spent several years living in Central America, and have friends in Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica. My choice would be Costa Rica, they generally like Americans. Life in Central America is more expensive than most would think. We split our time these days between Costa Rica and the US my parents both have health problems and we need to be near to help my siblings with their care. Employment is another problem in Central America unless you start your own company so if you need income plan accordingly. US Dollars usually spend fine (it is one of the official currencies of Costa Rica). My Spanish is bad (Spanglish really) but it adds to the fun and many folks speak English and like to practice their English with native English speakers anyway. We have an apartment we keep in the Central Valley of Costa Rica the people are nice, violent crime is not common it is mostly petty theft and there is a lot of that never put your cell phone down out of reach or sight it will vanish. On the other side I dropped $100 in colonies (Costa Rica's money) at the grocery store and the person in line behind me chased me down to make sure I got it back. They have a love for their families I really enjoy seeing that, it is a Central American Latin country so patience is a requirement, silly rules ad regs are common.
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Since the male standards are stricter, a shaved head will prevent them from having to go to the barber every other week, depending on the rate at which the recruit's hair grows. Females should at least be able to pin/arrange the hair into regulations, but if it cannot then it must be shortened.
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CPT William Jones
Why should there be two sets of rules on hair. Folks that signup now do so because they want to serve for awhile.
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Hair has nothing to do with gender equality, there is more of a psychological effect in forcing women to shave their hair off, than on men. I do not have proof of this, but I'm sure I could if I cared to do the research.
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There should be one standard for a Soldier...male or female...in all things, not just hair.
As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.
As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.
After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.
As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.
As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.
After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
My experience was the same as SSG Woods; once we unprocessed females did not get to go anywhere to have anything done to their hair.
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I think it is safe to say it is easier if males get their head shaved in BCT. Once their hair gets too long and is out of regs, there is no way to fix it besides getting it cut again. We all remember how busy we were in BCT. It seems to help eliminate them being out of regs more often in my opinion. Females if their hair is getting too long to where it is out of regs, they can put it up. Females can always fix their hair on the spot, a male can't really do that. That's how i see the whole situation anyways.
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SSG (Join to see)
Once out of BCT soldiers get more free time, which is why usually in AIT males can get what haircut they want. Not sure about other places but that was the case for my company.
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Females aren't going to just give up their femininity. Especially the ones who have worked for months to get their hair just so.
So go ahead and grumble and gripe. Not going to change anything.
So go ahead and grumble and gripe. Not going to change anything.
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SPC (Join to see)
The beginning debate of this running commentary is geared towards females with long hair/why don't they have to shave their heads, too.
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SPC David Beam
I don't even know what to say to that. What army are you in? It doesn't seem like the same one I am a soldier in. I have so many angry, hateful responses on the tip of my tongue right now... but that would not be professional. Are you familiar with that term? *sigh* Everything about your post is disgraceful.
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LTC (Join to see)
Equal rights are always tied to equal responsabilities. One can't have one without the other. If they are not in balance then it is favoritism or punishment. Equal civil rights demand equal rights and equal responsabilities, positive or negative.
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The best explanation I've heard is that it is the first military ritual of "I am part of something bigger than myself." I think there is merit in that. But it's hair. It grows back (for most of us).
Until males and females must meet exactly the same standards, the equality between the sexes is a myth.
Until males and females must meet exactly the same standards, the equality between the sexes is a myth.
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The idea of shaving a recruit's head is to break down the cult of the individual and make everyone look and feel the same. Then the training rebuilds the individual with common behaviors and skills that build them into a team. This is not, and never has been, "An Army of One". It's a team.
And yes, I think the shaved head should apply to everyone, men and women.
And yes, I think the shaved head should apply to everyone, men and women.
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I'm trying to understand why this is even a discussion. Shaved heads? Really? Trivial B.S. My retired opinion.
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Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. I was a Medic during my time in the Army.
There are different standards including PT. Men tend to have more upper body strength and endurance. Women tend to have better lower body/legs strength and endurance. They can tolerate pain better than we can.
I shave my head sometimes but it takes far longer. In BCT when there is over 200 people waiting efficiency is key. A woman who cuts her hair shorter(not a boy cut) before BCT is doing a good thing. We have an image to uphold. The Army doesn't see skin color like so many. There is Army Green. Rank is the definer as well as personal merit. Of course, officers are called "Sir" and "Ma'am" and that's common sense.
The cut along with many other things is part of a transition from civilian to solder. I've been out for some years and don't care if my head is shaved or trimmed. A woman's hair tends to be a defining characteristic. In our Class A's you can easily see the difference in a male and female soldier.
In conclusion, should shaving heads be required for everyone? Yes. Those of you who know how BCT is and with so little downtime, females must have their hair up unless they are showering or sleeping. Shaving removes almost all of the hair and allows for a new, healthy growth of head hair and greatly reduces the chance for lice. It's uncommon to see a woman with a shaved head like that unless they are of a particular stereotype.
BCT runs roughly just over 2 months. Hair grows roughly 1/2" a month on average. Trimming a female's hair in BCT would take much longer. I would have the female show up for an inspection a few days before going to MEPS.
There are different standards including PT. Men tend to have more upper body strength and endurance. Women tend to have better lower body/legs strength and endurance. They can tolerate pain better than we can.
I shave my head sometimes but it takes far longer. In BCT when there is over 200 people waiting efficiency is key. A woman who cuts her hair shorter(not a boy cut) before BCT is doing a good thing. We have an image to uphold. The Army doesn't see skin color like so many. There is Army Green. Rank is the definer as well as personal merit. Of course, officers are called "Sir" and "Ma'am" and that's common sense.
The cut along with many other things is part of a transition from civilian to solder. I've been out for some years and don't care if my head is shaved or trimmed. A woman's hair tends to be a defining characteristic. In our Class A's you can easily see the difference in a male and female soldier.
In conclusion, should shaving heads be required for everyone? Yes. Those of you who know how BCT is and with so little downtime, females must have their hair up unless they are showering or sleeping. Shaving removes almost all of the hair and allows for a new, healthy growth of head hair and greatly reduces the chance for lice. It's uncommon to see a woman with a shaved head like that unless they are of a particular stereotype.
BCT runs roughly just over 2 months. Hair grows roughly 1/2" a month on average. Trimming a female's hair in BCT would take much longer. I would have the female show up for an inspection a few days before going to MEPS.
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MSgt Joseph Holness
"Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. "...….THANK YOU! BEST POST of the Century!
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I came on active duty in September of 1978, right when the Army officially phased out the WAC (Women's Army Corps). I went through the first co-ed basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, Co A, 4th Battalion, 1st Infantry (A-4-1) and remember Tank Hill "fondly"...about fifty recruits in our company were from Puerto Rico and did not speak English and the MAJOR concern was would they make it to the end (one did not, because of violence issues [female, not male]) and through BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship). I had already cut my hair before basic because it was going to be a hassle having to deal with doing what you have to do with long hair to be compliant with Army regulation and because THERE WAS NO TIME!! I can look back on all that with a smile on my face, but at the time, there were no smiles!! The military already shows equality in pay - everyone can see who makes what at each pay grade by number of years. In civilian life, good luck. What your co-worker makes in wages is a virtual trade secret. Speaking from "experience," men and women are two physically different creatures. Yes, some women can push the limits of physical strengths as some men - but not all. It's also not the physical part that's important, but also the mental. Mental toughness is the true test. Working with what you have to do what you've go to do to accomplish the mission is the utmost. Basic training was designed to "weed out" those that can't make "the cut." (Pun intended.) In the grand scheme of things in the universe, does it really matter if a woman shaves her head bald? Can she deal with it? Probably. Some won't, but they won't be in the military. Will there ever be "equality" between men and women? Probably. Probably not. It's not a race. It's not a competition. I could care less that you can run 2 miles in under 8 minutes or that you can bench press 300 pounds. That's not the true test. The true test is with your mind.
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CPT William Jones
I was riding with you until the last couple of lines. That physical stuff is important is several MOS that are now available Infantry can you haul a very heavy pack several days and while doing so drag a wounded buddy to safety, or Arty load a larger number id rounds and load them, same with tanks as a loader. etc
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