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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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Yes they should salute, the Regs does not say "unless you're on a first name basis" like "Bob" or "Jim".
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I was always taught that anyone of lower rank would salute the higher rank. Enlisted - Officer and Officer to Officer. So yes you should be saluting.
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I work in a hospital environment where enlisted soldiers work very closely with officers due to the nature of our job. I have seen soldier's start to lose their military etiquette with officers which result in them often not saluting passing officers. Some of our doctors don't really care but they should as it teaches the young soldiers bad habits that can adversely effect them in other units. A 2LT should absolutely salute a 1LT. You are to salute anyone who is in a rank above you. I stand at parade rest for SSG even though we are both sergeants because it is a matter of respect.
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Is this a question that will never die again?
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No chance he makes 2LTs salute him. No way.
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CPT (Join to see)
I wouldn't. I would be to afraid they have seen this discussion on RP and want to talk about it.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
COL Arndt -- Hi Ma'am, I am doing well. Thanks for asking. It has been a long time since we last connected. Would be wonderful to catch up sometime. Great to see you and best wishes!
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Col Russell Anderson
The saluting tradition/regulation is certainly drilled into us from the beginning - salute all senior officers, wives and colors and standards not cased. Heck, I'd probably salute another colonel if I new he had a DOR senior to mine! I have always considered it an honor to salute a senior officer and a privilege to return a salute.
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I will point something out that should be as plain as a sight picture when looking down range. We have a lack of discipline and leadership across the military. If we look back we would see many of the causes of where we are today stem from the military adopting more of modern day society's practices. We do not practice democracy we fight for it. The way we win wars and conflicts is based on a system that requires a way of life outside the main stream of society. If you do not believe every little chip away at our customs and courtesies impacts us I ask you this. At what point do you draw the line? Why should a Major salute a LTC? They are as close in rank as 2LT and 1LT. I will leave you with the following observation that I use to teach my kids, who are just joining the military, some as officers and some as enlisted. The movie U571 where the captain of the ship orders an enlisted sailor to go back into the engine compartment and secure an air leak that will cause everyone to die if not corrected. The captain and the enlisted sailor both understand this task will cost the sailor his life. His response was Aye sir I will do my best. Today, with the logic espoused here by some, the response we could get may be why can't private snuffy do this instead of me? Respect, duty, honor and integrity are all part of our customs and courtesies. A change to one has the butterfly effect.
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CDR (Join to see)
I disagree. I served 10 years in the Army as enlisted solider with various units from Rangers, SF and sister services. The Navy is widely known to be lax when it comes to leadership/discipline, compared to the Army or Marines, within the enlisted and officer ranks. I believe it is because there does not exist a formal schooling process that teaches/re-enforces leadership and discipline along a career. Your example does not "hold water" (as the navy would say) because as a prior CO of mine in the Army, who was also prior enlisted, once told me "if an enlisted member of any service renders a salute, unless you physical cannot return the salute... you do. That is an officer's responsibility and a sign of respect acknowledging the service member.
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CDR (Join to see)
I have never heard of the no saluting without head gear issue. I understand your position but it is all tied together.
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CAPT (Join to see)
From the time I started ROTC (in 1986), it was drilled into my head that Naval Service personnel (Sailors and Marines) never salute uncovered or in civvies. This is why we don't salute indoors (you must be under arms to be covered indoors). I have continued to practice that to this day (even though it causes some uncomfortable moments at the Andrews front gate). If I'm in my uniform, I will put on my cover to go through the gate so I can return the salute.
I can also relate a story about one of my buddies. He was with an F-18 squadron in Japan at a joint dining in with the F-16 squadron. Air Force (and I think Army too) customs are to salute indoors (during quarters, award ceremonies, etc). As the story goes, a trip to the grog bowl by was followed by a salute to the President of the Mess before returning to one's chair. He was the first Navy guy to be sent to the mess but couldn't return to his chair because he didn't salute the President (couldn't because he wasn't covered and wasn't allowed to speak because the President wouldn't identify him). A number of the AF guys tried to force him to salute but he resisted. Eventually, his squadron buddies formed a hat from a napkin and gave him a butter knife so he could salute and finally sit down.
These are Naval customs as I learned them. I have many of my fellow shipmates who know the same customs (mostly those who have been on active duty). I continue to share them with my sailors.
I can also relate a story about one of my buddies. He was with an F-18 squadron in Japan at a joint dining in with the F-16 squadron. Air Force (and I think Army too) customs are to salute indoors (during quarters, award ceremonies, etc). As the story goes, a trip to the grog bowl by was followed by a salute to the President of the Mess before returning to one's chair. He was the first Navy guy to be sent to the mess but couldn't return to his chair because he didn't salute the President (couldn't because he wasn't covered and wasn't allowed to speak because the President wouldn't identify him). A number of the AF guys tried to force him to salute but he resisted. Eventually, his squadron buddies formed a hat from a napkin and gave him a butter knife so he could salute and finally sit down.
These are Naval customs as I learned them. I have many of my fellow shipmates who know the same customs (mostly those who have been on active duty). I continue to share them with my sailors.
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There is an old Marine Corps legend about one of our more well known Officers of Marines, one General Lewis (Chesty) Puller, that goes something like this:
General Puller once found a Second Lieutenant making an enlisted man salute him 100 times for missing a salute. Puller told the Lieutenant that he was correct in making the enlisted man salute him, but reminded him that good officers return every salute they receive. Puller ordered the Lieutenant to return all 100 salutes to the enlisted man and even kept count for the Lieutenant.
General Puller once found a Second Lieutenant making an enlisted man salute him 100 times for missing a salute. Puller told the Lieutenant that he was correct in making the enlisted man salute him, but reminded him that good officers return every salute they receive. Puller ordered the Lieutenant to return all 100 salutes to the enlisted man and even kept count for the Lieutenant.
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