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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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This whole thread is absolutely trivial. Interesting how the majority of folks who are commenting in favor of strict enforcement of the letter of the regulation have never been a LT, and are the very same folks who will not enforce standards on a daily basis, allowing Soldiers to walk around wearing the uniform incorrectly, boots bloused around their ankles, soft cap on wrong, hands in their pockets, leaning up against walls, hair out of standard, and overweight as well. And the attitude of some NCOs on here that Officers couldn’t find their ass with both hands without the help of an NCO is culpable.
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
Written like a true MP, LT Krinsky. "You either follow all regulations or none of them". This is exactly the kind of thinking that gets people killed. Independent thought and leadership ARE authorized. Regulations are guidelines, and they exist to further the mission. Officers are expected to make judgements, not to be rote automatons. In the military, as well as in life, not everything is black and white.
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CW4 Jeff Buss
CDR Michael Goldschmidt - Except when following maintenance manuals, especially aviation, those should be followed strictly, with exceptions approved by AMCOM (army).
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CDR Michael Goldschmidt
CW4 Jeff Buss - I don't consider maintenance manuals to be regulations on the same level, CW4 Jeff Buss. That's more best practices, like NATOPS, developed over a lengthy period and often learned in blood. Standardization is important in weapons systems, so that the operator knows what to expect. Not following THEM gets people killed.
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I was taught that there is a brotherhood of lieutenants and that saluting is not required. That said, I often did, especially if it was someone I respected.
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Based on some of the comments posted in this discussion, I encourage folks to read this article concerning this very same subject written by Col Rearick.
As an NCO that has been around for awhile now, it makes our jobs a lot more difficult when leaders cherry pick what rules to follow and create "unwritten rules".
I often have the privilege of talking to groups of young officers and enlisted on a broad range of subjects. The one question I get most often is, "What is the key to a successful Air Force career?" T...
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You see this with Warrants all the time, but I still do the correct thing and salute.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
CSM, from what I know of Chief's, that confusion is by design. They want to keep us guessing.
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A salute is warranted with the acknowledgement of a superior officer. No question in that.
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Cpl (Join to see)
SSG. I was a Cpl in The Marine Corps, and this is a major break down . it is silly Every Soldier ,Airman, Sailor , Marine, Coastguardsman should have been taught this in boot camp if that did not happen then their respective NCO's and Staff NCO's FAILED THEM PERIOD.
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SSG Nathan Bryant
I agree. Proud to say that no Soldier of mine would fail with this most basic aspect of Customs and Courtesies.
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LCpl Charles Ross
In The Marine Corps, we all are taught the same thing. When in doubt Always Salute. It's like Marine Corp Boot Camp, It's the only time you Address A Senior " ANYONE" as Sir. And especially Your Drill Instructors
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SSG Nathan Bryant
MAJ Ballinger, my comment was in response to USMC CPL Kunza regarding that ALL Soldiers (Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast Guardmen) should be taught when it is appropriate to salute. I now reiterate that as a Drill Sergeant, any Soldier in my formations is trained accordingly. Saluting an officer is much like calling "at ease" for me or a fellow NCO. They will not fail.
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I don't understand why this is posted as a discussion question. The standards are clear, junior ranking members ALWAYS salute the senior ranking and acknowledge the senior rank. If a member isn't willing to salute a senior ranking officer, then they should reconsider why they are in the military.
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<p>As much as the uniform belief has been that 2LTs salute 1LTs, you'd think it was the case and was universal everywhere. From West Point to my first, second, third, now fourth duty station I've NEVER seen a 2LT be required to salute a 1LT. I don't think it should be either considering there's hardly a difference in them. It should probably be more position specific if anything. There are those who get their commission and then spend so much time at follow on schools (Ranger, Airborne, Sapper, etc) that they report to their first unit already or nearly a 1LT. Meanwhile there are 2LTs who headed straight to their first unit right away and already have combat leadership experience before they get promoted. I'd say more credit goes to that than the guy who went through an entire rank in the schoolhouse. Not to mention there are 2LT and 1LT Platoon leaders, 2LT and 1LT XOs, 2LT and 1LT staff officers. It's a completely interchangeable rank/position situation. </p><p>So when it comes down to it, if there was going to be a change made - and I'm not necessarily advocating a need for one, just saying if there is, then this is how I think it should be - I think Platoon Leaders should salute the Executive Officers, regardless of rank difference and XOs should salute the CO regardless of rank difference.</p>
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MAJ (Join to see)
What you are talking about CPT is positional authority. I agree to a point. In one position I had while deployed, I was a 1LT who had positional authority over a couple of MAJ. But if I were to see them in an environment where it was not a designated "no salute zone", although I had positional authority, I would still salute them. They have that rank and had been awarded that rank. Although I had the authority, they had the rank. Authority doesn't define when someone salutes and when someone doesn't... not by itself. You won't find that in the regulations. But rank does, and it is defined in regulations.
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Why is this even an issue? If these are the types of discussions we are having in the military, I want out now.... Customs and courtesies... It's not a choice no matter how you "feel" about the situation
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CPT Joseph Pennella
These WERE the types of discussions going on in the military and that's one of the many reasons I got out. I do hear the Army is making a move back in the right direction and tightening up policy, standards, etc so, hopefully it'll fix itself.
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When I was a brand new 2LT I saluted a 1LT. He returned the salute but gave me a nasty look. Shorty after I was told that 2LTs do not salute 1LTs, and since then I have never expected a salute from a 2LT, I usually just walk past them and give a little head nod. It's one of those un-written rules for officers. And if a 2LT did salute me, I'd pull them to the side and explain that they didn't have to.
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MAJ (Join to see)
LT, it is not an unwritten rule for officers. We cannot decide when we are going to follow regulations and when we are not. They are the guidelines by which we conduct business. <div><br></div><div>If you notice, I didn't negatively mark your post. I am not looking to defrock you, just mentor you a little. </div><div><br></div><div>You were told something by someone who is considered a "barracks lawyer". Believe me. One day I outranked someone (I was a SSG, he was a SGT, the next day he was a 1LT and I was a 2LT. I saluted him. There is no option. He told me I didn't have to, but I did and continued to do so. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.</div><div><br></div><div>Don't follow the guidelines laid down by "barracks lawyers". They will not benefit you in the long run.</div>
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MAJ (Join to see)
MAJ Terry Schooler, it would be the same as me not saluting you.
See the full military profile of this Executive Officer at Army Jet Training Det, USARC HQ, stationed at Dobbins ARB, GA | RallyPoint professional military profile.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Sir, I would disagree. Each scenario has two officers, one of which is one pay grade greater than the other. Therefore, it is the same.
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