Posted on Nov 3, 2013
CPT Senior Instructor
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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?

"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Edited 11 y ago
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Responses: 1296
LTC Gene Shewbert
536
536
0
I agree and support the regulation when it comes to saluting, but the truth is the salute is a time honored recognition between warriors.  It is rendered out of respect for each other and the tasks we are asked to perform.  We too often see saluting as some obligatory requirement to recognize rank.  Too often I heard Non-commissioned officers stating, "that LT is barely out of school, with my experience he should be saluting me."  When I have encountered this, I have always taken the position of your right...you have a great deal of experience and as the Trainer of Soldiers it is your responsibility to TRAIN that officer and bring him or her up to speed with their duties and skill sets....it isn't about rank...its about creating a survivable combat team.  Recognize the fact that every Soldier took an oath...put on their uniform and understands the responsibility....exchange the salute as kin warriors.
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Col Jonathan Brazee
Col Jonathan Brazee
>1 y
SGT Dan Gray - If you want to use "superior," then have at it. I never did, and in 34 years of service, I was never taken to task for using "senior." I will not chide anyone else for using "superior." However, if you cannot understand my reasoning, even if you might disagree with it, then I'll leave it at that. There are far more important things in life and the military than which term to use when it boils down to personal preference.
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Col Jonathan Brazee
Col Jonathan Brazee
>1 y
SGT Dan Gray - I thought I was done with this, but if you are inferring or accusing me of breaking regulations, then I guess not. That is something that needs to be addressed. If you show me where in the UCMJ it specifies that a servicemember is required to refer to someone of a higher rank as a "superior" and prohibits the use of "senior," then your argument holds merit, and I will admit to 34 years of wrongdoing while in uniform in two different services and 10 years since my retirement. Until then, there is nothing stating that I must use the term as you so opine, and certainly not the UCMJ. I simply stated an aside to the question of saluting, and that was my preference for the term "senior." You may think my conclusions and choices are specious and not in alignment with your own preferences, but that does not mean that I am somehow acting against the UCMJ.
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CSM Jim Corrin
CSM Jim Corrin
>1 y
There is a big difference between the terms "Superior" and "Senior"....
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SSG Power Generator Technician
SSG (Join to see)
5 y
Excellent well put we are all war fighters, no job is above another we all are brother ,and sisters in arms. Only equal by attitude make all succeed no matter who we are we all breed the same.
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MG Peter Bosse
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When I was a young 2LT, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, my company commander was a 1LT. He was a great leader and a great mentor. I would have considered it disrespectful not to salute him. Less because of his rank, but more because of who he was and the position that he held. Should we feel any different about LTC's saluting COL's or BG's saluting MG's? Of course not. Each is entitled to a salute IAW military regulations and customs and courtesies. I would feel bad if I hadn't rendered a salute to that 1LT who helped me get to where I am today!
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TSgt Gary McPherson
TSgt Gary McPherson
>1 y
Col Jonathan Brazee - As former spit and polish marine it did cause me problems at first when I joined the USAF. lol
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Lt Col Paul Maxwell
Lt Col Paul Maxwell
6 y
Good point. In that scenario, where the 1LT is the commander, and not a peer / fellow platoon or flight leader It makes sense, esp in formation, ceremony. But for the average 1LT/ 2LT cross traffic in/out of buildings, mess hall, billets... a verbal hello greeting was always quite reasonable without salute.
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CDR Matthew McLaughlin
CDR Matthew McLaughlin
>1 y
MAJ Samuel Weber I always find this question mystifying. As a newly commissioned butter bar ENS with 22 years enlisted time, it never crossed my mind not to salute a 24yo LT(jg). There stands an O-2, and I'm an O-1, therefore I salute. When said O-2 screwed up, I fell back on 7 years as a CPO and conducted some respectful JO training. Sometimes even rhe best of us need to be reminded that it's not about us; it's about the nation we serve and the uniform we're honored to wear in that service.
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SSG Power Generator Technician
SSG (Join to see)
5 y
Amen, preaching to the choir.
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SFC Signals Intelligence Analyst
431
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The other day I watched our Battalion CSM salute a brand new WO1 who had
just recently returned from WOCS. The WO1 looked surprised, embarrassed and
proud all at once and as for the CSM, he was doing what was right and
respectful and thought nothing else of it. It warmed my little NCO
heart. Be the example.<br>
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Col Daniel Henkel
Col Daniel Henkel
>1 y
You are due the salute based on rank! - You earn respect based on leadership!
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COL Bill Stoltzfus
COL Bill Stoltzfus
>1 y
In a similar example I was commissioned 2LT after being an SP6 for about a year. I saw 2 of my WO pilot unit members that had been unaware of the pending action; within 1 hour of my promotion. After a quick second look they each smartly saluted and congratulated me. They had always respected me as an enlisted soldier prior to this day, and I have them each the traditional $1 for the first salute given.
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CW2 Human Intelligence Collection Technician
CW2 (Join to see)
>1 y
My first salute as a WO1 was from a SGM. It was easily the proudest and most confusing moment of my life.

That said, I have had to walk Junior NCO's back to a 2LT to force them to salute.
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CPT Daniel Cox
CPT Daniel Cox
>1 y
My first salute as a Second Lieutenant was the ROTC Tac NCO. He collected a Silver Dollar from each of us upon commissioning. I was honored to have Merlin Olsen (L.A. Rams and NFL Hall of Famer, Actor, and a top ROTC Cadet who was deemed too big to be commissioned, even though he was the Cadet Battalion Commander at Utah State University and Top Five Cadet Nationally) pin my bars on one side with my mom on the other.
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Should a 2LT salute a 1LT?
Sgt Lonnie Rush
114
113
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Why is this really even a question?<br>
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CPO Mark Anthony
CPO Mark Anthony
>1 y
And if this guy was made to render you 100 salutes, you were required to return every salute he rendered you! Did you?
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SSG Clayton Blackwell
SSG Clayton Blackwell
8 y
This is the same thing I asked myself when the question popped up. Why is this a question, regulation says you do, so you do. end of discussion.
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Maj Engineer Officer
Maj (Join to see)
8 y
2LT Tom Waters, JD - Total Bull Shit! Your integrity is in question. When we die, we leave only one thing behind; our character, it defines the essence of who were, you should consider recanting your fairytale.
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Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
>1 y
This is funny because I started to add my own comment of "This wouldn't be a question in the Marine Corps", but decided to scroll down to see if another Marine on here had already pointed that out and sure enough...
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LTC Dallas Powell
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I see a lot of responses here, with one commonality: almost everyone who has never been an officer agrees that O1's should salute O2's. While the strict reading of the regulation might be correct, it is almost never practiced and probably never will be. In my view as an officer, LT = LT, always. Many of the reasons already stated are sufficient, but I will add my two cents.<div><br></div><div>If a 1LT is making 2LT's salute and say sir or ma'am, something is obviously wrong with the 1LT. I have seen this in my career, and corrected it when I could. No LT worth his salt should ever expect that from a brother/sister LT.&nbsp;</div>
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1LT(P) Quartermaster Officer
1LT(P) (Join to see)
7 y
THANK YOU. Glad to see common sense prevails. I said it before and I'll say it again--if you're a 1LT getting bent out of shape by 2LTs not saluting you, then you're not busy enough! Go find some work, LT!
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Cpl David Amos
Cpl David Amos
7 y
MSgt (Join to see) I was thinking the exact same thing. Or calling each other by first name.
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SGT Nickolas Ortiz
SGT Nickolas Ortiz
7 y
That's insane! In the NCO Corps, an Corporal shows respect to the Sergeant, the Sergeant to the Staff, the Staff to the Sergeant First Class, and so one. You're telling me, "LTC", that that's not how it's done in your Army? Glad I got out when respect meant something...
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SGT Nickolas Ortiz
SGT Nickolas Ortiz
>1 y
So... since it's only the "rank" you're looking at, and not the uniform... should a Army 2LT salute a Navy LT?
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SSG James Morrow
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<span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px; ">What 2Lt's and 1Lt's do when they are among themselves is between them but when they are around soldiers as per AR 600-25 or Fm 22-5 or FM17-21 Junior Soldiers salute Senior Officers period, To not do so show a lack of respect. How can you as a leader expect your soldiers to show proper courtesy when you are not leading by example. A 1lt out ranks a 2Lt the last time I looked, Would you not salute your company commander if he was a 1LT? Come on gentlemen a regulation is a regulation no matter how much you disagree with it. Show the proper respect. Be a professional.</span>
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SGT Fire Support Specialist
SGT (Join to see)
12 y
Okay sir (1LT Hermida) I see where you're coming from and on that same note do you snap to attention every time you speak to your company commander?  Officers are the worst violator of showing customs and courtesies to each other in this regard.  While regulations are black and white, not shades of grey, there is a matter of context to be taken into consideration.  The most important thing to remember is that Joe see's everything, and Joe do like Joe see.  If you are in an office talking business one on one, it shouldn't be a problem.  Outside of that, stand at parade rest until you're told otherwise.   Saluting is always in a high visibility area.  Set a good example for those watching you out in public.
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SSG Daniel Deiler
SSG Daniel Deiler
>1 y
CPT Hermida, I can't speak for all NCO's but this guy with the two thumbs sure does. And I expect my subordinate NCO's to do the same unless or until I tell them otherwise.
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SSG Warren Hall
SSG Warren Hall
>1 y
I agree with SSG Deiler
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Robert Perrotto
>1 y
absolutely this - I go to Parade Rest every time I engage an NCO that is superior to me, they have earned that respect, most immediately tell me to relax, but the curtesy was afforded them. You never know who is watching, and Joe has eyes everywhere, and Joe does what Joe sees.
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1SG Steven Stankovich
63
62
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Sir, a 2LT should always salute a 1LT.&nbsp; Just as a 1LT should salute a CPT and so on.&nbsp; It is the right thing to do.&nbsp;
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SFC Clinops
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58
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Sir, although they may consider themselves "peers" and see themselves as Lieutenants, the regulation is clear.&nbsp; It shouldn't be a compromise on the regulation simply because "most see........". If the standard/regulatory guidance is followed each time, you'll see more 2LTs saluting 1LTs.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
12 y
Erica.&nbsp; Yes mam.&nbsp; <br>
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SGT(P) Section Leader
SGT(P) (Join to see)
12 y
I totally agree with you SSG and if not then the complacency sets in
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1px xxx
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The best response is to yield to connotation inherent in the regulation. Or, as we were taught,"when in doubt, whip it out". Can't ever go wrong doing so.&nbsp;
SSgt Robert Harriott
SSgt Robert Harriott
>1 y
Etiquette "there" is not standard etiquette then.  A Marine private will most like be standing at parade rest for anyone higher than him because 1) it is in the standards and guidelines outlined as a Marine, and 2) just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean it's correct. An O-1and O-2 are not the same, as are an E-1or E-2. If so they would be the same number.  That is as simple as I can put it. The good old college boy club where everyone calls each other by their first names is not as revered as you may think. The enlisted give less than a damn about what value officers hold in their standards and traditions and this is topic is one example why. There is no bend in the rule when explaining it. Simply say this is the way it should be, but this is the way we do it out of regs. Simple as that. Everyone tries to make it seem right, just admit you're doing it wrong and move on. It takes a brave man to walk his own path, but an even braver one to not try and cover it up. 
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MAJ Physician Assistant
MAJ (Join to see)
>1 y
MAJ Ballinger, I have been to Ft Hood recently and would say I concur with your assessment that Soldiers aren't doing the right thing there. By regulation you salute the senior officer. Period. When you allow standards to waiver you dhow the troops it's OK to pick and choose. then they are shocked when you are reading them their Art 15. As field grade officers it is our job to enforce a standard by example. It would never occur to me to not salute a senior field grade. why is it even a question. because both are called LTs? Consider if 20th was and ensign and 1st was just a LT. Would there be a need for discussion? No. Doing what's right in the absence of anyone saying different is leadership and integrity. We need more of that. Not less
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Capt Manpower Officer
Capt (Join to see)
>1 y
Times must have changed recently. When I entered the Marine Corps, we were taught that the Marine Corps had an unwritten "one bar rule" were all lts and wo's did not salute each other, but all the other branches, to include the army saluted each and every rank up. We were taught this for the occasions we had to work jointly with our sibling services as to not embarrass ourselves and the Marine Corps.
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CPO William Streiff
CPO William Streiff
8 y
Speaking from a Navy perspective, the policy as I was taught, back in 1954: all enlisted personnel initiate a salute to all officers, including warrant officers and midshipmen. All officers initiate salutes to all officers senior to them. On board ship, it is not considered prudent to initiate a salute on each meeting, so, it is done on the first meeting of the day. This is usually taken care of when dismissing from morning quarters. The commanding officer (referred to as Captain regardless of actual rank) is saluted upon each meeting. As a matter of courtesy salutes are also rendered to high ranking civilian government officials. One major difference in Navy policy from the other Services, is that salutes are not rendered when a person is uncovered or indoors. When in a group the salute is rendered by the person in charge of the group.
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COL Michael Simone
37
37
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<p>The salute should always be rendered to an officer of superior rank.&nbsp; When I was a 2LT over 35 years ago, and on a first-name basis with many friends who were 1LT, I made a point of addressing them properly in all public/official settings.&nbsp;Senior Warrant Officers would do the same for me as a brand new 2LT.</p><p>&nbsp;Over the years I continued to do the same to officers of the same grade but who happened to be in a more senior position; for example, when I was an S-3&nbsp; I always addressed the BN XO (a good personal friend, by the way) by his title or "Sir" in official settings. When I was a COL commander and had several other colonels (also good friends) serving in my command, they did the same for me&nbsp;in official settings.&nbsp; I never had to tell anyone to do so; they were all professional military and knew what to do.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;&nbsp; By the way, I also observed the same correct degree of deference among the outstanding NCOs with whom I had the honor serve for more than 30 years. I recall many instances of an artillery section chief SSG addressing an SSG acting chief of battery (E-7 position), or an SFC &nbsp;platoon sergeant addressing an SFC in an acting First Sergeant position, by the proper title whenever they were in a situation where subordinates might observe them.&nbsp; Correctly addressing a&nbsp;superior is not only an obligation of service, it is a privilege.</p>
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
12 y
Colonel Simone.&nbsp; The bottom-line is that manners and respect can never be a bad thing.
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