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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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If the 1LT is the 2LT's Company Commander, then absolutely. In all other instances, I would not consider it necessary. 2LTs and 1LTs are peers and should be on a first name basis.
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The obvious answer is, yes.
Unless you are in a situation that precludes saluting, such as a combat environment (or combat-simulated environment, when training).
The exception to this is when the two officers are meeting informally and outside the view of others, and both know each other well enough to understand there is no ill-will meant by not presenting a salute.
Unless you are in a situation that precludes saluting, such as a combat environment (or combat-simulated environment, when training).
The exception to this is when the two officers are meeting informally and outside the view of others, and both know each other well enough to understand there is no ill-will meant by not presenting a salute.
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<p>The salute is warranted. That being said a 2LT and a 1LT who are both platoon leaders will have a different working relationship than a 2LT platoon leader and a 1LT in a command position. Leaders are supposed to set the example.</p><p> </p><p>BTW, interesting perspective, as an officer I had to perform way more salutes than I did when I was enlisted. Enlisted only have to salute officers, officers have to salute any officer that is of higher rank and return the salute of all enlisted soldiers and officers of lower rank. Something to think about.</p>
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MSG Jason Sikes
Sir, yes you have to salute more, you earned it! Its funny how this topic is going? For good order and discipline just salute. Bottom line hen in doubt whip it (the salute) out. Young Soldiers understand that and that kills this topic.
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It seems that this question cannot be answered because even among the officers that posted, there are differences of opinions. When I went to the Army regulations, All I found was the that juniors salute seniors. Just because the Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps have two different ranks of Lt does not mean they are equal. A 1LT is senior to a 2LT.
Let me make my case like this. In the Navy and Coast Guard they have Ensigns and not 2LTs. What they have are LT Junior Grade (1LT in other services) and Lt (Captain) in the other services. Now tell me? Is a LTJG junior to a LT? Yes they are and salutes are exchanged.
I will also admit that my interpretation of Army regs is influenced by my 11 1/2 years of active service with the Marine Corps. I was out of military life for 5 years while attending college and getting a job. When i returned, I joined the Army National Guard and had to learn about Army regulations. Having served at Patch Barracks in Stuttgart, GE (it is a joint service post and an important HQ for the US military and thus swarming with officers of all ranks, especially Majors and above...just a footnote for those who didn't know) I knew there were many differences in customs and traditions. When I read the regs then and when I looked up the regs on-line the other day, it only said that juniors were to render a salute to a senior officer. Because of what I posted above, I still say that a 2LT is junior and should salute all the officers above his/her rank.
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If a 2LT shouldn't have to salute a 1LT does that mean the 1LT doesn't need to salute a CPT or Lt Gen doesn't need to salute a General? The senior officer is entitled to the salute regardless.
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Too Easy Sir, That is a senior Officer you must salute. Just as a MSG should stand at Parade Rest for his 1SG or SGM fo rhis CSM.
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Asking if a 2LT should salute a 1LT is like asking should a MSG stand at parade rest for a CSM or a SSG for a SFC. Yes, a 2LT should salute a 1LT because that is the regulation. A 2LT is a leader from the beginning. A 2LT is a leaders and their actions could influence the actions of Soldiers. We must do the right thing even when we don't want to. When has this become optional?
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Generally, in practice, a 2nd Lt would only salute a 1st Lt when reporting in a formation, or something similar. I remember being told by a 1st Lt when I showed up as a brand new 2nd Lt, "don't call me sir, and don't salute me, we are lieutenants, and it makes us look dumb when the Marines see it." In practice, anyone who wears one bar, (lieutenants, WOs and CWOs) do not salute one another.
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1LT Nick Kidwell
Are you really gonna pull the "Active vs. Reserve Component" card here? That attitude is so 1985. You may have noticed that in OIF/OEF, the NG and Reserve units had a tendency to rotate in as often as their "big Army" counterparts. We also got shot at by the same bullets, mortars, RPGs, etc. and get blown up by the same VBIEDs, so just drop the component superiority complex already. It's tired and inaccurate.
You might also want to educate yourself on how this site works. I am not a "junior National Guard officer" as you derisively put it. I have a V by my name in my profile and on my post, indicating that I am a Veteran. My last rank held was 1LT, which is why the site shows that rank.
You also seem to patronizingly think that I need "mentorship," which coming from a field-grade S3 probably means you think I'm some young wet-behind-the-ears Looie. Fact of the matter is, I was former enlisted who joined late in life, so I'm probably at least as old as you are. Bottom line: back off with the "wise old Major" condescension.
As far as the actual matter at hand, as a lowly Guardsman where the number of officer positions ALWAYS outnumbered the officers available, I have seen several 1LTs in company command, as well as the primary S2 and S4 (not just some flunky Assistant Staff coffee-fetcher). These were people in a position that was at LEAST 1 step above their current pay grade.
Now, would I as a line unit PL consider saluting the BN staff weenies, even though they really only had dubious seniority over me? Sure, why not? After all, their responsibility level was above both my pay grade and theirs. Would they expect it? Probably not, unless lower-ranking folks were about. How about those company commanders? Yeah, that was a much clearer answer...but they rarely expected it, unless lower-ranking folks were about.
Besides, us Guardsmen, we usually already knew each other well and had come up through the ranks together. And really...an LT is an LT is an LT. As a Major, you ought to know this, despite your insistence on protocol.
Shall we beat this dead horse any longer? Is it REALLY edifying at all to either one of us or anyone reading?
You might also want to educate yourself on how this site works. I am not a "junior National Guard officer" as you derisively put it. I have a V by my name in my profile and on my post, indicating that I am a Veteran. My last rank held was 1LT, which is why the site shows that rank.
You also seem to patronizingly think that I need "mentorship," which coming from a field-grade S3 probably means you think I'm some young wet-behind-the-ears Looie. Fact of the matter is, I was former enlisted who joined late in life, so I'm probably at least as old as you are. Bottom line: back off with the "wise old Major" condescension.
As far as the actual matter at hand, as a lowly Guardsman where the number of officer positions ALWAYS outnumbered the officers available, I have seen several 1LTs in company command, as well as the primary S2 and S4 (not just some flunky Assistant Staff coffee-fetcher). These were people in a position that was at LEAST 1 step above their current pay grade.
Now, would I as a line unit PL consider saluting the BN staff weenies, even though they really only had dubious seniority over me? Sure, why not? After all, their responsibility level was above both my pay grade and theirs. Would they expect it? Probably not, unless lower-ranking folks were about. How about those company commanders? Yeah, that was a much clearer answer...but they rarely expected it, unless lower-ranking folks were about.
Besides, us Guardsmen, we usually already knew each other well and had come up through the ranks together. And really...an LT is an LT is an LT. As a Major, you ought to know this, despite your insistence on protocol.
Shall we beat this dead horse any longer? Is it REALLY edifying at all to either one of us or anyone reading?
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1LT Nick Kidwell
It's amusing that you took it as a challenge, and even more amusing how you've continued to attempt to belittle me. No, outside of deployment (you know, where component matters diddly) and AD for training, I've never been "Big Army." Got it. Feel better about yourself? Feel like more of a soldier? Hope so, because that's the only point I see in those comments.
Now, I may not know how things go in the "real" Army, but I know how things went in my own personal experience. What I have described is the way I saw things run from BN level down. You may INSIST that I am "categorically wrong" on an issue, but I'm describing what I saw, and that is a fact that you cannot gainsay.
Furthermore, do NOT presume to know anything about my personal experience, ability, talent OR knowledge. You know diddly about me, and can't possibly know anything beyond what is shown on this site.
I've already unsubscribed from this thread. I did that for a reason, not the least of which is that the whole thread (and your insistence on being right) has gone beyond unacceptable.
Kindly do not mention me in this thread again.
Now, I may not know how things go in the "real" Army, but I know how things went in my own personal experience. What I have described is the way I saw things run from BN level down. You may INSIST that I am "categorically wrong" on an issue, but I'm describing what I saw, and that is a fact that you cannot gainsay.
Furthermore, do NOT presume to know anything about my personal experience, ability, talent OR knowledge. You know diddly about me, and can't possibly know anything beyond what is shown on this site.
I've already unsubscribed from this thread. I did that for a reason, not the least of which is that the whole thread (and your insistence on being right) has gone beyond unacceptable.
Kindly do not mention me in this thread again.
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1LT Nick Kidwell
I have asked you politely. Now I'm going to be blunt. Leave me alone.
I was done with this conversation a LONG time ago. Stop engaging me in this thread, as of 16 hours ago. Go away. I am not impressed with you in the least, and all you are doing is confirming my earlier opinions of you.
To be clear, do NOT engage me in this thread any more. I have already asked you once and have indicated that I purposefully unsubscribed. I do not desire any further contact from you as your input has been far from edifying.
I was done with this conversation a LONG time ago. Stop engaging me in this thread, as of 16 hours ago. Go away. I am not impressed with you in the least, and all you are doing is confirming my earlier opinions of you.
To be clear, do NOT engage me in this thread any more. I have already asked you once and have indicated that I purposefully unsubscribed. I do not desire any further contact from you as your input has been far from edifying.
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
you know you have the option to mute him or remove yourself from this discussion. that way he can not bully you or contact you in any way. he has been completely condescending not only to you but many others. the worse thing is he doesnt see it
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Customs and Courtesies. The 1Lt outranks the 2Lt and I know they see each other as Lieutenants
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One more thing I forgot to mention... in my A school in Pensacola, Fl, I was on my way somewhere and my class leader was right behind me and we were going in the same direction. There was an officer and I saluted. The marine behind me didn't and got his rear end chewed for failure to salute. Then in the mess line, one of my marine friends asked me "how do you know when to salute since E-7's wear the same uniforms as officers." I told him that if it's a garrison cap, chiefs only have one rank device, but officers have two. If they wear the combination cover, chiefs have their rank and a black chin strap where officers have something bigger and a gold chin strap. But if you can't tell, salute anyways. Better to be wrong to a chief than to be wrong to an officer. I saluted a chief and he just said "Do I look like an officer to you? I work for a living."
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GySgt William Hardy
This only works in good lighting! LOL in twilight or under street lights, it is hard for people who do not, on a daily basis, see the differences in uniforms. When I was in Norfolk and working evenings and nights, I saluted many Chiefs. Some laughed. Some Some said, "I am a Chief." Some saluted back. Just about the time I got the hang of it, I got shipped out to an all Marine posting.
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Sgt Lonnie Rush
As far as saluting chiefs who give shit about it I always say yes you are a chief and you at least earned my respect. LOL
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