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I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."
Officers
Customs and Courtesies
Army
Saluting
AR 600-25
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 1296
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it is a sign of respect for the rank, we have been told that it is a silent hello.
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SGT Paul Hirsch
Actually it originated a long time ago when meeting another person you would raise your hand to show you had no weapons. To date, the United States is the only country that does not show the palm of the hand when saluting.
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How is this even a question???! (Am I being fooled by someone inserting a Duffel Blog article in here? Lol) ABSOLUTELY, a 2nd Lt. should Salute a 1st Lt.!!! This is basic customs and courtesies 101!!! Let me ask you this 1st Lt, should a 1st Lt salute a Capt.? (0-3) If your conclusion is "Yes", then there is your answer. A 1st Lt is a higher ranking Officer then a "Boot Butter-Bar". If the Butter-Bar doesn't perform the required guidelines for basic customs and courtesies, by saluting his superiors, then immediately "lock" that bag nasty joker into the position of "Attention" and give him a very well deserved ass-chewing and make him "police" the surrounding area for cigarette butts around the Enlisted Barracks.... Bonus points if he comes across a used Condom in his punishment... ehem, excuse me, "corrective action" taken for being an Unsat, lackadaisical, border-line belligerent Bag Nasty ;)
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Cpl Joseph R. Connors / USMC
Good Evening LTC Beller,
Honestly, this phenomenon is somewhat fascinating and counter-intuitive to what I would think would be instilled in 2nd LT's and or Ensign's (O-1) fresh out of OCS? And I honestly (yet I can see, blindly) ASSUMED that furthermore discipline; especially customs and courtesies would be instilled in The Basic School....?? But, after all this feedback I am seeing, I will be first to admit, that I was mistaken.
However, I do have a related question LTC Beller....you mentioned that promotion from 2nd LT to 1st LT is automatic (I'm assuming time-in-grade is the determining factor)... About how long (on average from what you've seen/experienced), does this "automatic promotion" takes place?
Semper Fi Colonel!
Joe
Honestly, this phenomenon is somewhat fascinating and counter-intuitive to what I would think would be instilled in 2nd LT's and or Ensign's (O-1) fresh out of OCS? And I honestly (yet I can see, blindly) ASSUMED that furthermore discipline; especially customs and courtesies would be instilled in The Basic School....?? But, after all this feedback I am seeing, I will be first to admit, that I was mistaken.
However, I do have a related question LTC Beller....you mentioned that promotion from 2nd LT to 1st LT is automatic (I'm assuming time-in-grade is the determining factor)... About how long (on average from what you've seen/experienced), does this "automatic promotion" takes place?
Semper Fi Colonel!
Joe
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LTC Stephen B.
When I was in the USMC it was 2 years to the day after the date of the Annapolis graduation/commissioning so officers that graduated from universities/ROTC and commissioned earlier than the Academy would not be senior to the academy grads when competing for Captain. In my case, my university graduated later so I pinned O2 at about 23 months. I have no idea what it is today. From what I've seen of the Army, promotions are about the same, but about 10 years ago due to some poor personnel decisions in the late 90's, larger numbers were getting promoted at 18 months, then to Captain at another 18 months, 3 years time in service to O3 and promotion rates over 95%. When I was an LT in the Corps, selection to Captain was in the mid-60% range. But then, we were drawing down for the 'peace dividend.
With regard to discipline and 'customs and courtesies', we were definitely drilled in those areas. But if the 'custom' is not to render said 'courtesy' and the senior officer directs you not to, what is the proper response? Like many junior officers that have posted here, I saluted the first O-2 I met at MCSSS on the north side of Camp Lejuene and was promptly instructed in the Lieutenants-saluting-Lieutenants caveat.
With regard to discipline and 'customs and courtesies', we were definitely drilled in those areas. But if the 'custom' is not to render said 'courtesy' and the senior officer directs you not to, what is the proper response? Like many junior officers that have posted here, I saluted the first O-2 I met at MCSSS on the north side of Camp Lejuene and was promptly instructed in the Lieutenants-saluting-Lieutenants caveat.
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LTC Stephen B.
Army regulation http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r600_8_29.pdf table 3-1 on page 27 shows 18 months from USMA (West Point) graduation date for promotion eligibility from 2LT to 1LT.
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Cpl Joseph R. Connors / USMC
Not to "beat a dead horse" here, but don't they cover customs and courtesies in OCS? Superior/Higher-ranking Officer yields/equals a Salute, period!!! I'm really just shocked by this phenomenon, as I have never heard, expected nor considered this being as prevalent an issue as I am being made aware of... :(
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I see this as a somewhat tongue-in-cheek question, and generally the old adage is true: rank among lieutenants is like virtue among whores. However, there are some instances when it would be appropriate. The first that comes to mind is that the 1LT is in charge of the 2LT. We don't see it too much anymore, but it used to be common for a 1LT to be a company commander, with 2LT platoon leaders. I had a similar issue in my 3rd company command, in which all my PLs were captains.
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CPT (Join to see)
Well, let me ask you think. If you saw a 1LT saluted him, then you saw a CSM salute him, and then you saw a 2LT walk by him and just say whats up what would you do? Would you not care? And what would you do if your soldiers saw this also?
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SGT (Join to see)
If I saw a 1LT salute another 1LT I would chaulk it up to him being an LT. (Humor intended)
I expect a CSM to salut him.
If I saw a 2LT walk by and acknowledge his presence...good.
If 2LT walks by and doesn't say anything there may be an issue.
I am enlisted. My soldiers are enlisted. I teach my soldier that right is right. In aviation if you start justifying actions based on what you see others doing without an understand of WHY they do it that way then you WILL get someone killed. It is none of my consern what an LT does until it has to do with aviation.
When I said an LT is the only one that cares. I kinda meant most O-3's and above are not going to waste their time with correction of this issue. And if they are close enogh to make the correction....shouldn't the LT's be saluting the O-3 and up making the correction?
I expect a CSM to salut him.
If I saw a 2LT walk by and acknowledge his presence...good.
If 2LT walks by and doesn't say anything there may be an issue.
I am enlisted. My soldiers are enlisted. I teach my soldier that right is right. In aviation if you start justifying actions based on what you see others doing without an understand of WHY they do it that way then you WILL get someone killed. It is none of my consern what an LT does until it has to do with aviation.
When I said an LT is the only one that cares. I kinda meant most O-3's and above are not going to waste their time with correction of this issue. And if they are close enogh to make the correction....shouldn't the LT's be saluting the O-3 and up making the correction?
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1SG(P) (Join to see)
your correct sir, its sets a bad image overall for young Soldiers. if you are lesser in rank regardless of what you think, that courtesy is always rendered.
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