Should a 2LT salute a 1LT?

Aviation Warrants that came from enlisted ranks don't have an issue with being called "Chief", usually the ones that don't like it are the guys who came straight in to being an Aviation Warrant. I never really understood what the issue was. I have always answered to Chief and regularly refer to other Warrants as Chief, unless they are a WO1.

Except the regulations are clear and apply to Lieutenants as well as everyone. You cannot hold junior personnel accountable if you are not following regulations yourselves. The military is much larger than Lieutenants or any member. How hard is it to follow the rules? Discipline and order are essential to your profession.

This is a big problem in the military today. Most every leader I ever had wants to decide when to disregard regulation when it suits them and when to use it a a weapon in the strictest form. That attitude creates low moral and poor attitudes in the troops.

So in your Army you get to chose what regs you abide by, eh? POG...

LTJG Edward Bangor Jr - Taking him out for a beer and him saluting you are two entirely different subjects. Neither precludes the other.

No disrespect intended sir, but a 2LT already has his mentor and "buddy" - they are called Sergeants First Class. In public, the regulation is clear - what you want is irrelevant regardless of the rank you hold sir, there are no exceptions. this is a clear case of unwritten rules over ruling the written rules, should LTC's not salute COL's? - by your logic sir, they are both Colonels, and can have non leadership positions.

while on this subject, the Practice of officers calling each other by their first names, especially in front of the Soldiers, is a terrible practice, and should be dissuaded. we are not civilians, we are Soldiers, and should act accordingly.

I was always under the impression that higher-ranking officers abdicated the responsibility of training a 2Lt to the Platoon Sergeant he was assigned to. I know I broke in a few myself. This is especially true during the preparation for an AGI .

Maj (Join to see) - Perhaps I should qualify my answer by mentioning that I spent the first 14 years of my career in Air Training Command and it's successor Air Education & Training Command.

MSgt Hal Weeden, MBA - I see what you are saying. In training it could be different, especially when it is a student/instructor relationship.

2LT Tom Waters, JD - Now don't all get offended here. Two Summers ago, I attended a memorial dedication ceremony in Vermont for Merrill Edson, the famous leader of the leader the First Raider Battalion, "Edson's Raiders", in WWII. One for the speakers there was a VNG Brigadier, it's the VNG's Deputy Commander, I believe, who had been a USMC Lance Corporal before leaving the Marines to join the Army. This answered an age-old question for me: "what is the Army equivalent rank of a Marine Lance Corporal?" Obviously, a Brigadier General!

If this were true they should wear the same insignia.

Ssgt Harriott, it is in the official training, not "I don't give a ****" Although as a former spouse to a Marine for 10 years, I am used to hearing Staff Sergeant and I don't think I will get in any trouble calling someone Staff Sergeant.

SSgt, your dealing with a translation problem: you have to recognize that USMC and USA have different traditions. When you're on their turf, it's best to respect their traditions and not to be offended unnecessarily. I had a similar translation problem with an Army COL I worked for. I would greet him every morning with "Good morning, Colonel Murphy." He asked me one day if I didn't like him. To be addressing him that way was the most respectful by Navy tradition, yet least respectful by Army tradition. I adapted and simply addressed him as "Sir".

Sir, the joke about the PFC and LT reminded me of my LT when I was a PFC. I told him that technically I out ranked him because I'd been promoted twice.

CDR Michael Goldschmidt - Call a USMC 1SG 'Top' like I did once on a joint-op and you will find out the difference tut-suite!

I believe the original question was SHOULD a 2LT salute a 1LT. The answer is yes will alwasy be yes an will continue to be yes. Do they? I don't give a shit but don't let me catch one not rendering a salute. I will fix your damn traditions quick fast and in a hurry.

I guess it was just me and the first Officers that I had contact with back in '88 who "explained" to me that 2LTs do not salute 1LTs because..."Rank among LTs is like virtue among whores, non-existent!"...and as an NCO, I would never have interjected myself into the interactions of 2 LTs, maybe I would have asked later, when the two of us were alone why no salute, but definitely never in a public setting.

Sorry sir that is how it was "explained" to me as a young PFC, wasn't my analogy, just how it was phrased.

Stay on the tank!

That's doing it right sir.

SSG James Palmer, I'd be happy to ... first off, thank you for *asking* for clarification, in the last year you're the first example of that I've experienced on RP. Re-reading this now, I was being sarcastic, and either that didn't come across to a couple of people, or they would rather neg me than the guys that were serious, for whatever reason. I did find some of the alternative takes on the topic troublesome, and some of the replies in this thread made me want to flip the table and walk away from RallyPoint altogether.

I think LT Rosa was posing the question without editorial bias in the first place, since he cited chapter and verse (AR 600-25) and I have every expectation he knew the right answer.

On the surface of it, I didn't like LT Yates' approach - mostly because he didn't seem to acknowledge that he needs to have a good explanation for not making an immediate correction to a 2LT when they are likely to be under the watchful eyes of ... everyone, but in particular the junior enlisted. Nobody in the Army should be particularly surprised when a 2LT makes a mistake, but everyone should expect that they can count on a 1LT to straighten them out; they're in a perfect position to do so.

There's really only one way that I'd accept LT Yates' answer: if he was running such a tight unit that everyone ELSE besides the noob 2LT knew that corrective action was going to happen, and quick, and it was because of Yates' standards matching Army standards.

If I had a senior NCO who worked closely enough with me and was good at talking to junior officers, that he could take my nod, note, text message or other tip-off as a cue to have a quiet moment with the 2LT and diplomatically sort it out, that's one thing. Just thinking that your senior NCOs are going to clean up the mess and do the work for you is another, and not nearly good enough.

SSG Palmer, by emphasizing 'asking' I wasn't implying that you could not demand, in fact I do think you have a right (and a responsibility, when it's the serious stuff) to ask for clarification when things are left vague. I'm remembering a moment from Iraq, when a certain senior officer told a Bradley crew to "Light 'em up!" over the radio, and the vehicle commander (an E6 I believe) very diplomatically asked him to rephrase his last transmission. That clarification saved a few lives.

I was both a 2LT and a 1LT, and saluted/ was saluted in both positions. Why not ? Does not a LTC salute a Col ?

General George S. Patton was a great man

Sir, I think this young marine almost getting his face shot off while violating the almighty uniform regulations would disagree with Patton's statement.

I would be slow to judge a soldier manning the line. A rapid response from his cot could lead to being at the wall in a T Shirt.

read the regs

Not sure I ever saw that during my time. Never even thought about it, good point SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL

Bs

Bs. Not LT's

This is an excellent point. It's one that my uncle, a Marine O-6, continually stresses to me. While I am sure that in his squadron things are done a little differently as a result, during my enlisted years I never once had this happen to me. In fact, I was once even chewed out for NOT saluting while both my hands were full of gear I was moving out of the barracks. You can bet I was not rendered this courtesy, despite the fact that I gave him the proper greeting of the day.

This explains why I was saluted while on patrol (I am an MP) walking outside the dfac, in a crowd of people. Im not going to salute while under arms and walking through a crowd, but I still gave the proper greeting of the day to an LTC and CPT who walked by, promptly replied and rendered a salute.

Indeed.. MPs don't show the courtesy (salutes, attention, parade rest ect.. ) as a safety issue. They weren't saluting you.. they were returning the one you couldn't give.