Posted on Nov 3, 2013

Should a 2LT salute a 1LT?

CPT (Join to see)

652K

6.3K

2.81K

570

562

I have been dealing with this a lot. I have seen both ways. As per AR 600–25 the junior person should salute. I see a 1LT senior to a 2LT and I salute them. I have seen many instances where this does not happen. Most see a LT as a LT regardless of being a 1st or 2nd. How do you all feel about this?

"B. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute. Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States..."

Posted in these groups: Officers logo

Officers

Customs and Courtesies United states army logo

Army

Saluting

AR 600-25

Edited 11 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

Follow this discussion

Responses: 1296

Show most popular responses

SGM Sylvester Ishmael

Posted 12 y ago

The fact that this is being discussed shows us where we are. The bottom line is follow the regulations & policies. Those who choose to do otherwise create new standards that is contrary to the standard(s). Stop allowing mediocrity to rule the greatest Armed service in the world.

(2)

Comment

(0)

MSgt (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

After reading all these replies in this posting I guess I grew up in a different era and military.

I came into the military through the Marines - customs and courtesy's were demanded and required by all members of the Corps (it didn't matter if you were enlisted, warrant or commissioned).

Each individual that was of a lower grade was expected to render the proper respect to the grades above them - it did not matter what classification you were. This rendering of respect was a custom and courtesy that was up held by all grades in the Marines.

If you can't abide by simple customs and courtesy's in a peacetime situation what do you think will or would happen in warzones?

From my own perspective I really don't understand why this is such a controversial subject. Each grade is a different rank - it doesn't matter if the underlying name is the same.

(2)

Comment

(0)

CPT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

I agree with the premise of upholding the standard as required by the AR. That being said, I think that a long-standing tradition is another form of standard that has developed over time. I saluted a 1LT after I was first commissioned and was laughed at. My personal view is that if you, the 2LT, and another 1LT are both platoon leaders or on equal ground position-wise, you should not salute him. If he is the company XO or the acting commander, then salute him. That seems to be the standing tradition as I've observed it.

(2)

Comment

(0)

MSG (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

Without question the 2LT should be saluting the 1LT as the 1LT is senior in grade. If the 1LT doesn't correct the 2LT that doesn't mean it is ok and it should be addressed. A SGT(E5) would stand at parade rest when addressing a senior NCO lets sat a SFC(E7) until told other wise. The E5 can't work off the premise that Im a NCO just like the E7 is a NCO and we both by regulation can be addressed by Sergeant in conversation. While that may be the case the E7 is still senior and should be shown the proper military customs and courtesies which is no different than the 2LT saluting the 1LT.

(2)

Comment

(0)

COL George Antochy

Edited 12 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

Yes we have heard that there is no rank among Lieutenants. I say it is institutionally dependent. In public a 2LT should salute a 1LT, and walk one to the left and one to the back except when talking. A 2LT should not address a 1LT as 'Sir', unless the 1LT is in a command position. First name basis is permissible except when mixed with Enlisted. Typically a 1LT is the XO, and deserves the position respect.

(2)

Comment

(0)

LTC Donald (Don) Bachler

Posted 12 y ago

Absolutely! They are an officer of higher rank, are they not? Now promotions to 1LT are basically automatic (*you have to take action IF you do not want them promoted). It was not so in my day.

My personal feelings are that rank is not earned as an officer, as it really is for enlisted. Officers hold a rank as a position of public trust for a limited time. There can only be so many officers of a certain rank in a certain branch on active duty at any given time. We hold that rank only for a certain time, then we must give it back. We are either promoted based on the belief we are prepared for greater responsibilities, or we are passed over based on the needs of the service and/or our abilities fall short for the next rank. Respect the rank, as someday you will have to give it back for the last time.

(2)

Comment

(0)

CPT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

No- I remember thinking that I should, but the 1LT that I was going to salute saw it start and stopped me. We all worked for the same person and did the same job.

(3)

Comment

(1)

MAJ Ted Nagel

Posted 12 y ago

Even the regulation is worded vaguely probably for a reason. The wording, which many have pointed out says something to the effect of a salute shall be rendered to a person to whom a salute is required. It does not say "To every person of senior rank."  The regulation is called "Customs and Courtesies" and yet many of you want to dismiss this custom. The standing custom between officers (this is an issue between officers) is that 2LTs do not salute 1LTs. That is the custom. Therefore it is within the regulation's wording of rendering a salute to persons for whom you must render a salute. The officer corps establishes its own customs. Would the NCOS corps appreciate us coming in and handling customs between NCOs? It has absolutely no relationship to respecting or not respecting the individual wearing the rank. I have saluted many I did not personally respect as I'm sure everyone who has spent a day in the army has done.  The Army is an organization of long-standing customs. This is just one of them. 

(2)

Comment

(0)

1LT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

Rosa, I have always afforded 1LT's a salute and the greeting of the day. I have also frequently been corrected or scolded by those same 1LT's - told "There is no rank amongst Lieutenants" a quote supposedly attributed to President George Washington.<br><br>However, the right thing to do is to afford them the courtesy.<br>

(2)

Comment

(0)

LTC (Join to see)

12 y

Unless the Army, by doctrine, recognize them as equal. Check out an MToE and tell me what slots are afforded to 2LTs.

(2)

(0)

Lt Col (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

Ultimately, it's a sign of respect, for the person and the rank. There's always the option to openly discuss it as well. You could salute, then address it with the person you're saluting.

Eventually, you may notice it's similar to peers that are a year group ahead of you. With each rank I've held, there are always multiple cases of people you know that will be promoted before you are due to an earlier year group. It's out of respect of the rank/person that you first address them by the new higher rank, and let them say you're still on a first name basis.

(2)

Comment

(0)

SGT(P) (Join to see)

12 y

The first name basis also seems to be a special method of address reserved for officers and junior enlisted soldiers. If I am in uniform, or in mixed rank company outside of work, even my drinking buddies are addressed by and referred to by rank and last name (or sir or ma'am). Nobody has perfect discipline, but even subordinates can lead by example.

(0)

Should a 2LT salute a 1LT?

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.