Should a 4-year degree be a requirement for selection to E-9?

CSM Maynard,

We shall have to agree to disagree on this one. However, I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to respond to my question. I did not realize that there was no notice given when someone responded to you, so I am no going back through to make sure I did not miss any.

I feel that a completed college education should never be considered when selecting NCOs of any rank. I can see that it reflects the Soldier's motivation to self improve, but that does NOT translate to leadership potential. Since I have been an NCO I have had NO time to work towards college, I have spent early mornings, late days, working lunches and more all working on counseling, training, tracking and all around LEADING Soldiers. There is nothing I hate more than to work an entire month of 12+ hour work days, my family resenting the military because they don't get to see me, all for someone to tell me that I am not good enough because I didn't shirk my duties as a leader to better myself with a college degree that has no bearing on my ability to perform my job! No, in my opinion, if you have earned a college degree since becoming an NCO, then you have not been the NCO that should be considered for promotion.

then should they give the board points back to the soldiers and not worry about civil ed? A soldier going to a training facility only can get points now if they max out civilian ed and military ed. So to get close to enough points to become an NCO. Once there still has to focus on some way to gather points to go to the next rank. So by the time that NCO is a E6 he/she should almost have a 4 year degree when they get ready for E7. So should it be I say yes because with the draw down of deployments and no changes in the point structure should be no excuse why in their off time , just as they tell lower enlisted, they cant do it. Unless they are surrounded by a bunch of dirt bag soldiers . Not meaning to step on anyones toes or degrade any one. Just saying if they can put it out to a soldier time management so should they fallow the same. Unless they redo points system again then why not. If HRC WOULd actually or a Senior NCO track a new soldier going to lets say NTC as a first duty station . Track that soldier and see how hard it is and what that soldier has to do to make the grade to become an NCO they would see PT and weapons wont cut it when their points stay at 600 .Without maxing civil ed military ed and other schools that new soldier wont have a chance. Not every MOS gets lucky to see 100, 200,or even 39. So yes an education wont hurt anyone or kill any one to get in order to make the next grade. It was said the Army wants to go to a smarter Army since the draw.down so they should have enough personal time to accomplish this task. I dont remember ever seeing it in the NCO creed to cut corners instead of fulfil responcibilities inherent in that role. Maybe i missed something. Anyway An NCO should be held to higher standards and show his soldiers it is possible not generate excuses for them when they cant make the points to become an NCO them selves. What would you tell your soldier if they asked what you did to become and NCO. Oh i complained alot and whined because they changed the standards to get to the next rank. Ya thats what I want to hear .So either have HRC change they points system again or Let those that cant cut the mustard stay where they are and watchan nco they mentored pass them because that soldier used his/her spare time wisely. Any questions? HOOOOAH lets get those degrees

I agree with you all. Take the time and knock it out...with our military lifestyle and hours that we work, it does take time. Mine took like 15 years, partially because I lost track, lost my way, partially because of all the deployments.

Now, should it be a requirement, no. One thing though, if they make it a requirement via the regulations for SGM, CMSgt, or Master Chief...they have to pay for it...and with the way budget cuts are around, downsizing, and all that, I doubt DoD will cut out a budget to pay 100% for E-9s to have a Bachelor degree. Also, if and when they make it a requirement, they have to provide the time for the E-8 (or lower ranks) to get it.

I completely agree SGM. Too many Soldiers get wrapped up about degrees. While it does prepare you for being a better civilian I question how well it prepared you for your current MOS/job.

SGM Preusser,

I propose that while not necessarily our job, it is possible for us to do both. And you SGM stand as an example of this fact. Granted most of us accomplish it where and when we can, but we get it done.

If a degree is not that important why are officers, and senior officers required to have the education? With online college this can happen and not miss out on field problems. And after 20 years an NCO should have the skills necessary to survive combat. Perhaps the evaluation and award recommendations will be written better.

Higher education is a tool in the tool-bag of leadership. In addition, a degree will provide a leader with the ability to expand their way of thinking. Furthermore, enlisted service member will have a great deal more employment opportunities after they decided to leave the service or retire.

I agree that it is important and it will help them out upon getting out of the military. The question was should it be a requirement for E9. I agree we should use our off duty time to get college. Again, let's be realistic. I grew up an Infantryman...My 1SG was not letting me come in from a 3 week field problem to go to college. You can not make a cookie cutter standard mixing MOSs for college. Not every Mos or branch will get equal time to do so. That is why 11Bs do not compete with paralegals for promotion. It cannot be equally implemented across the spectrum of the Army. Active and Reserve are also different. A reservist has more time without military commitment and a most stable work environment to be afforded the ability to do so. You must think outside your little box(MOS) and see what is feasible to all before we suggest this requirement.

I understand that those that have been in awhile will hate change but is it not our job to say hoooah rgr and march on whether tou like it or not. I am a mechanic and not given the oppertunity to walk in and say i have 39 points give me my E5 I my self at 44 but a SPC am worki g on a Degree with no quams. I know when I get out it will only benefit me and my family. Not very many jobs hire to shoot move and communicate. This year is the lostest my points have been in the 4.5 years and thats was at 413 it has sat at 798 for the last 4 years. So other then passing pt and 300 and getting 40 out of 40 where will I get the rest of the points? well thats were got no choice but civil ed , a degree, military education and awards if you can get them. and being realistic SGM there is no way in haydies any new SPC in a mechanic mos that has points sit at 798 for as long as they do will ever see NCO with out going for a degree. Trust me my NCOS will vouch that I have done all ssd's but ssd5 and now theu took them back as far as points ok there goes 80 points a piece and then no points for board so there is about 100 and some gone lowered the max points for civil ed to 78 and only 5 certs. ACCP for E5 stops at 390 for a whopping 62 points so if you add up this up SGM with out the 78 for civil ed oh lets not forget 4.5 years at NTC SO no deployment points unlike those who have deployments because NTC never deploys. Now lets get the calculator and see where I sit. .........I got 488 hmmm not very close to 798 huh. Well guess mechanics other then certain mech MOS's will ever see 39 am i promotable yes will i see E5 before RCP well if enough E6 and E7 and a few E6 fail to meet their requirements of what this whols discussion is about .No offence ment to any SR NCO's just saying ,then I have a shot at my E5. Until then i can almost feel the threads touch my finger tips but will probabaly never until one cop out change MOS or rack up a bunch deployments one right after the other so I can have those points then I will. Not to disrespect anyones rank but one old guy to another I bust my ars to get as far as I. an with no arguments of why I have to shouldnt the rest

How in the world could anyone get a college degree on active duty these days? The OP tempo is just to dang high it is tough just to get your military requirements done.