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1SG
CSM
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There is nobody in uniform who should not respect and provide some deference to the various E-9s (regardless of the level-I.E. Brigade, Command etc) If you make it to E9, no matter what, you have steered your career in an amazing fashion. The percentage who make E9 is so small. The E9 mafia can move mountains and are a force not worth angering (because they can/will cause heartache).
That said, the bootest, greenest, rookiest 2ndLt out ranks the crustiest E9. Just the way it is.
An E9 can and should do damn near anything they want. That does not mean LT goes to parade rest. It does mean that less than 3 years of service should pay a hell of a lot of attention to more than likely 20+.
Just sayin'
That said, the bootest, greenest, rookiest 2ndLt out ranks the crustiest E9. Just the way it is.
An E9 can and should do damn near anything they want. That does not mean LT goes to parade rest. It does mean that less than 3 years of service should pay a hell of a lot of attention to more than likely 20+.
Just sayin'
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LTC Pete Moore
NCO's model the standards, discipline, and expertise that a young LT must achieve. However that LT is responsible for EVERYTHING that happens or fails to happen. If he fails his NCO generally his PSG is culpable. NO officer, WO1 or above should stand at ease or parade rest before any NCO, however they should treat EVERY NCO and indeed E-1 / PV1 with respect. Being senior in rank means YOU set the tone in professionalism. I was commissioned as a SSG and was a little uncomfortable with my CSM- one day my Team Sargeant and the CSM pulled aside and said, "Sir you're f$&@ing charge, you are responsible for everything that happens or fails to happen. All I have to do is advise you and carry out your guidance." It was great advice and a great example of the relationship of a senior NCO and a young officer. Captain not certain if you're trying to prompt discussion or if your's was a real question but get in the regs and be a professional - don't want to be an autocrat but grab your junk and be a leader. The only times I've ever seen this debated was between "ate up" officers and NCOs. "NO" an officer does NOT stand a parade rest and any NCO that has to talk about his time in service and "earned" rank is most likely a weak NCO. Be professionals set the standards and drive mission accomplishment and your damn rank won't matter. Captain be in charge or "go to the house"- the only thing worse than a BAD NCO is a WEAK Officer!!!!
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CSM Felipe Mendez
As a previous CSM, I never expected from any officer to do such, I gave my respect tonal the same.,regardless the rank/grade, they earned it. I let my LTs know that my door was always open for them. When I saw something that maybgonthe wrong direction, I did approach such LT and let him know that if he/she trust in his/PLT SGT things can go smoother for her/him. I have to said, the LTs that I had the privilege to work with, they were and still are very professionals, and care for their soldiers. I am still in touch with must of them, some have made it to GEneral officer rank and stay have the time to say hey once in a while.
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CMSgt James Nolan
LTC Paul Labrador without a doubt. (And to be honest, that green LT can still teach the old guy some things. )
My original response was meant to be saltily sarcastic, with truth thrown in.
Because the bottom line is that none of us were successful “alone”.
My original response was meant to be saltily sarcastic, with truth thrown in.
Because the bottom line is that none of us were successful “alone”.
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Respect for 1SGs, SGMs, and CSMs does not end at 1LT or CPT. Many of us LTCs and COLs defer discussion when a SGM is talking. That respect continues...they have earned it. It may not be written in regulation, but I compare it to the same respect to parents, teachers, clergy, etc.
As for the silly question above about saluting, I bet the SGM will be quick to salute the LT..that is the discipline the Army has taught us all. So that LT better be ready to return the salute...and a crisp one!
As for the silly question above about saluting, I bet the SGM will be quick to salute the LT..that is the discipline the Army has taught us all. So that LT better be ready to return the salute...and a crisp one!
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CSM (Join to see)
Indeed. I would never not salute a 2LT. They have met the requirements for a commission and deserve respect. When I see a new 2LT I make some assumptions:
1. They have completed college so they should be able to complete multiple tasks at once. So when they are waiting for a PLT to open up I expect them to be able to manage writing simple OPORDS, manage the BN OPS calendar and take on an additional duty and be an investigating officer for a 15-6. They just finished juggling multiple classes/projects in college, managed a social life, in many cases had a job, completed their military science classes etc.
2. They have the ability to be a critical thinker so they should understand intent with just a little guidance. College SHOULD have developed this to some degree.
3. They will take ownership of a task. When given a mission or tasking they will put maximum effort into it.
I don't expect any of that from a brand new Private, and sometimes I am disappointed with a new LT, but GENERALLY they can accomplish those three things.
1. They have completed college so they should be able to complete multiple tasks at once. So when they are waiting for a PLT to open up I expect them to be able to manage writing simple OPORDS, manage the BN OPS calendar and take on an additional duty and be an investigating officer for a 15-6. They just finished juggling multiple classes/projects in college, managed a social life, in many cases had a job, completed their military science classes etc.
2. They have the ability to be a critical thinker so they should understand intent with just a little guidance. College SHOULD have developed this to some degree.
3. They will take ownership of a task. When given a mission or tasking they will put maximum effort into it.
I don't expect any of that from a brand new Private, and sometimes I am disappointed with a new LT, but GENERALLY they can accomplish those three things.
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SGT Richard H.
I can't imagine why any NCO, especially senior, would not salute a 2LT. You can even take respect out of the equation if you want. It's basic customs & courtesies of the Military, and NCOs are the example-setters in that.
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Of course the LT should not stand at ease for the E8/9, however; the LT should know when to yield the floor to pay attention to the lesson the senior NCO may bestow.
Quick story:
I received a commission after my first full enlistment and a job I competed for was Aide de Camp to a 1-star. I got the job and everything that came with it; to include the CSM. I learned so much during that job from both the Old Man and the CSM. It wasn't about reminding each other of rank; it's on the collar. It was about earning each other's respect thru deeds, dedication, and duty. I also learned the importance of having 2 ears and 1 mouth; to listen twice as long as I talk.
Quick story:
I received a commission after my first full enlistment and a job I competed for was Aide de Camp to a 1-star. I got the job and everything that came with it; to include the CSM. I learned so much during that job from both the Old Man and the CSM. It wasn't about reminding each other of rank; it's on the collar. It was about earning each other's respect thru deeds, dedication, and duty. I also learned the importance of having 2 ears and 1 mouth; to listen twice as long as I talk.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I have to clean coffee off my computer screen and keyboard now.
Thanks a lot, CPT (Join to see)!
Thanks a lot, CPT (Join to see)!
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CSM's will always render a salute for us LT's. The best thing a LT can do is return the most crispiest, sharpest salute ever when anyone salutes them. I am tired of seeing officers do these half ass salutes with no response as if the salute is ONLY for them. It is a sign of respect for both sides.
That being said, I choose to stand at east if I am talking to a CSM unless they tell me to relax. I do this to show that I am at full attention at what they are talking to me about because I respect their experience and knowledge.
My old commander at my last unit actually called the company to "at ease" when the BN CSM came into the room. I thought that was pretty cool. Soldiers may be confused but once you clarify the amount of respect you have for the senior enlisted, they understand why we do it.
That being said, I choose to stand at east if I am talking to a CSM unless they tell me to relax. I do this to show that I am at full attention at what they are talking to me about because I respect their experience and knowledge.
My old commander at my last unit actually called the company to "at ease" when the BN CSM came into the room. I thought that was pretty cool. Soldiers may be confused but once you clarify the amount of respect you have for the senior enlisted, they understand why we do it.
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CSM (Join to see)
I have LTs in my BN that stand at ease when they talk to me and I just tell them to sit down or relax. I ALWAYS call them "Sir" or "Ma'am". My BN CDR will call at ease everytime I walk into the TOC in the field. When the BN CMD Team has a tight working relationship the junior officers see that and act accordingly.
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A1C (Join to see)
SN Greg Wright - Same... I feel like most officers don't remember that the salute is a sign of MUTUAL respect. Not a sign of submission. Regardless, it would make a very angry person out of me to have an officer disregard my salute.
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SSG Lance Sawyer
I agree with you about the half ass salutes. If I'm going to show you the respect of saluting you should show me the respect to acknowledge with a proper salute back. I understand that it is the officers decision to salute back though.
I was walking to the chow hall and a Captain was leaving. I saluted the officer out of respect for the rank, but what I got back was more of a bullshit wave. It wasn't even a call off like they sometimes do. It was like the officer was trying to salute, but to stupid to know what to do.
I was walking to the chow hall and a Captain was leaving. I saluted the officer out of respect for the rank, but what I got back was more of a bullshit wave. It wasn't even a call off like they sometimes do. It was like the officer was trying to salute, but to stupid to know what to do.
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1SG Billye Jackson
If there are Commissioned Off in TOC or anywhere else At ease should not be Called for SM,CSM or 1st Sgts.
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That would be a violation of protocol. LT's need to learn from their NCO's, not be subordinate to them.
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SGM (Join to see)
Ron, you are the first in this thread that brings to light the command team relationship, and you are spot on. This "argument" is lost on those that understand that relationship.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
Agreed. A LT needn't stand at ease or at attention for a CSM, but he'd certainly be a fool to try and pull rank. Last one I saw doing that very quickly wound up wishing the thought had never entered his mind.
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Suspended Profile
No! As has been stated very clearly by several below -- show respect, but not subordination.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
CPT Brian Maurelli - Sir I trust you know my comment was tongue-in-cheek. I respect you very much.
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