Posted on Jun 29, 2014
Should all branches of the military wear a US flag on their uniform?
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Ok, I apologize in advance once again for bringing Civil Air Patrol into the mix, but an interesting and heated debate has arisen the last few days that might be relevant here.
-In 2007 CAP's national commander added the reverse american flag on the BDU uniform. This change was met with a lot of resistance, many people were not happy with the addition.
-A few days ago, CAP's new uniform manual began phasing the US flag out and once again, many people are upset, saying it's disrespectful to remove it from the uniform.
-Here's my opinion: The Army is the only branch that wears it, and CAP is not the Auxiliary of the Army. I read a few discussions about why most branches don't wear it and I agree. It is a work uniform and poses the risk of soiling or tearing the flag patch. I, as a Crew Chief understand this and would hate to have to replace it every time I spilled hydraulic fluid on it. The Army has it a little easier being their patches are Velcro so it can be easily replaced. I also heard by rumor that the Army was discussing removing the US flag as well. Is there any truth there or just rumor?
What are your opinions? Should all branches of the military wear a US flag on their uniform? Why do you support your opinion?
-In 2007 CAP's national commander added the reverse american flag on the BDU uniform. This change was met with a lot of resistance, many people were not happy with the addition.
-A few days ago, CAP's new uniform manual began phasing the US flag out and once again, many people are upset, saying it's disrespectful to remove it from the uniform.
-Here's my opinion: The Army is the only branch that wears it, and CAP is not the Auxiliary of the Army. I read a few discussions about why most branches don't wear it and I agree. It is a work uniform and poses the risk of soiling or tearing the flag patch. I, as a Crew Chief understand this and would hate to have to replace it every time I spilled hydraulic fluid on it. The Army has it a little easier being their patches are Velcro so it can be easily replaced. I also heard by rumor that the Army was discussing removing the US flag as well. Is there any truth there or just rumor?
What are your opinions? Should all branches of the military wear a US flag on their uniform? Why do you support your opinion?
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 41
Whether your are wearing work, combat or dress uniform would not matter since when any uniform is soiled/stained permanently or if it were to become torn then the uniform needs repaired, replaced or retired. The argument of not affixing the US Flag for this reason is rubbish in my opinion. I also feel that all branches of the service as well as their auxiliaries should be displaying the US flag on their uniforms and I am also of the opinion that the US Flag should be permanently affixed to all uniforms and not be affixed in a fashion where the can be easily removed such as velcro.
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Remove the reverse field, put in on the right way and make it part of the work uniform, or remove it all together.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Another Army SSG told me once that the reason the flag is worn in such a way is to symbolize the action of always moving forward and advancing, never retreating. If that is true, I would say leave it the way it is.
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SSG (Join to see)
My Boyscout handbook says the field is always on the left. Same for display in any other format except the uniform.
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I'm indifferent, but I will point out to you that the Army is NOT the only branch that wears the flag. Aircrew in AMC also wear the flag on the left shoulder. There are probably some other examples as well (any Navy folks want to chime in?), but I'm in ACC, where we have the wing patch on the left shoulder.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Well yes the flight suit is a different story. I was referring to the ABU/BDU. I'm an ACC too but the ACC that I am doesn't get flight suits haha.
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Hopefully I can provide some insight on this. I happen to do oversight for said organization for my reserve job. I am ina CAT-E PIRR position called CAP-RAPO or Reserve Assistance Program Officer for CAP-USAF which is the congressional mandated Air Force oversight arm for CAP.
Back in 2007 CAP had a very pretentious National Commander by the name of Anthony Peneda. He promoted himself to a (CAP) Major General. When previously that position was only authorized Brigadier Gen (CAP). He was hell bent on trying to make the organization look more like the real Air Force. CAP officers wear a distinctive modified version of the AF uniform by wearing Grey Epaulets both the Service Dress and Light Blue Shirt as well as having a distinctive hat device versus metal grade on the flight cap. On their BDU's they wear ultra marine blue name tapes and insignia's as to not be confused with an actual AF Officer.
Peneda did some changes like adding "US Civil Air Patrol" to the blue name tape instead of just Civil Air Patrol, which it has reverted back. He also invented a new CAP uniform that almost bridged our service dress. I will admit it actually looked more legit than ours ironically. He had a new Double Breasted Coat made where now they could finally wear those prized metal insignia on their shoulders versus the Grey Epaulets. They wore a white under shirt instead of a blue one, but now wore the AF regulation Blue Epaulets. The only thing that made it not appear to look like an AF uniform was that prior/current military serving in the program were not allowed to wear any federal military ribbons or devices. However if they were on base being that most of us rarely wear our service dress any way I could see people salutes to CAP Senior Members. That caused some contention with the USAF because since it was not on the official AF uniform we could not tell them no.
The flag was also the addition to the BDU to make it appear more military like. Since then Maj General (CAP) Peneda was 2B'd from the organization for cheating on an Air Command and Staff College (ACSC) test. Once the new leadership took over they decided to try clean house and their reputation by reverting back to the status quo.
I don't have a problem wearing the US flag on the BDU since they can wear it on their flight suits.
My overall opinion of the organization is this. Having graded two Opevals and directing 1. They are very professional at what they do when running incident command centers, executing SAR/DR missions from AFPRC or the state that they are in. However, every now and then I run into a goob who speaks to me as if I am subordinate to him. Not disrespectfully but just in a tone that sounds like he is talking to a subordinate officer. I had to correct a CAP member who called my assistant who happens to be a Reserve Senior Master Sergeant as Sergeant. I had to explain that SMSgt's are not called sergeants they are Seniors or Senior Master Sergeants. In the CAP-RAPO program we are unique in the sense that anyone from an E-5 to a Reserve O6 can be a CAP-RAPO. To the Cap personnel the oversight authority of any CAP-RAPO is the same no matter what grade they hold.
It drives me nuts every time I hear a CAP person bitch that they should be allowed to look like the real AF personnel. CAP should be proud at what they do but they should understand that wearing the USAF uniform is a privilege and not a right. A 2LT in CAP does not go through any officer accessions course unless they are an actual military officer. All that is required for 2Lt(CAP) is completion of the CCPT and SML1 training and wait 6 months.
Sorry for the tirade it drives off the wall when the very small few in that organization think they actual officers.
Back in 2007 CAP had a very pretentious National Commander by the name of Anthony Peneda. He promoted himself to a (CAP) Major General. When previously that position was only authorized Brigadier Gen (CAP). He was hell bent on trying to make the organization look more like the real Air Force. CAP officers wear a distinctive modified version of the AF uniform by wearing Grey Epaulets both the Service Dress and Light Blue Shirt as well as having a distinctive hat device versus metal grade on the flight cap. On their BDU's they wear ultra marine blue name tapes and insignia's as to not be confused with an actual AF Officer.
Peneda did some changes like adding "US Civil Air Patrol" to the blue name tape instead of just Civil Air Patrol, which it has reverted back. He also invented a new CAP uniform that almost bridged our service dress. I will admit it actually looked more legit than ours ironically. He had a new Double Breasted Coat made where now they could finally wear those prized metal insignia on their shoulders versus the Grey Epaulets. They wore a white under shirt instead of a blue one, but now wore the AF regulation Blue Epaulets. The only thing that made it not appear to look like an AF uniform was that prior/current military serving in the program were not allowed to wear any federal military ribbons or devices. However if they were on base being that most of us rarely wear our service dress any way I could see people salutes to CAP Senior Members. That caused some contention with the USAF because since it was not on the official AF uniform we could not tell them no.
The flag was also the addition to the BDU to make it appear more military like. Since then Maj General (CAP) Peneda was 2B'd from the organization for cheating on an Air Command and Staff College (ACSC) test. Once the new leadership took over they decided to try clean house and their reputation by reverting back to the status quo.
I don't have a problem wearing the US flag on the BDU since they can wear it on their flight suits.
My overall opinion of the organization is this. Having graded two Opevals and directing 1. They are very professional at what they do when running incident command centers, executing SAR/DR missions from AFPRC or the state that they are in. However, every now and then I run into a goob who speaks to me as if I am subordinate to him. Not disrespectfully but just in a tone that sounds like he is talking to a subordinate officer. I had to correct a CAP member who called my assistant who happens to be a Reserve Senior Master Sergeant as Sergeant. I had to explain that SMSgt's are not called sergeants they are Seniors or Senior Master Sergeants. In the CAP-RAPO program we are unique in the sense that anyone from an E-5 to a Reserve O6 can be a CAP-RAPO. To the Cap personnel the oversight authority of any CAP-RAPO is the same no matter what grade they hold.
It drives me nuts every time I hear a CAP person bitch that they should be allowed to look like the real AF personnel. CAP should be proud at what they do but they should understand that wearing the USAF uniform is a privilege and not a right. A 2LT in CAP does not go through any officer accessions course unless they are an actual military officer. All that is required for 2Lt(CAP) is completion of the CCPT and SML1 training and wait 6 months.
Sorry for the tirade it drives off the wall when the very small few in that organization think they actual officers.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I was an active member in the Pineda days, I remember very clearly everything that went down with him and all the uniform stuff he made on his own. I have lots of opinions on the rest of the stuff you discussed as well but I don't feel like delving in haha.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Lt Col (Join to see), just a quick correction. According to the current AFI 36-2618 THE ENLISTED FORCE STRUCTURE dated 27 February 2009, paragraph 5.2.2 "The official term of address is Senior Master Sergeant or Sergeant. NOTE:
“Senior” is not an appropriate term of address for SMSgts. "
Back on topic, I was once a member of CAP and enjoyed my time as both a cadet and a sr. member. Unfortunately, one of the sq CCs I worked with was one of those types and during his tenure, I saw that particular unit destroy itself because of his ego.
“Senior” is not an appropriate term of address for SMSgts. "
Back on topic, I was once a member of CAP and enjoyed my time as both a cadet and a sr. member. Unfortunately, one of the sq CCs I worked with was one of those types and during his tenure, I saw that particular unit destroy itself because of his ego.
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Suspended Profile
You're missing an option there SSgt (Join to see);
"Army should wear the flag. Don't care what anyone else does"
"Army should wear the flag. Don't care what anyone else does"
PO1 (Join to see)
1LT Quan Dinh With the impressive number of sailors and airmen supporting the Army for routine operations as individual augmentees, I disagree. We should all be properly identifiable if there is reasonable expectation that we could be captured.
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SGT Logan Beckwith
You should be proud to wear it, not shrug it off as "they wear it, I don't need to".
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While I understand the respect for the flag, the one on the uniform is NOT the flag that falls under the U.S. Flag Code. It is to be considered a flag printed article of clothing and acted upon as such. Allowing the patch to touch the ground or get dirty/greasy is not the same as letting the flag itself touch the ground; the patch is not even to federal standards for official flag dimensions, if my memory serves me correctly. Military forces across the globe wear their flags on their shoulders, and there is no reason we should not be doing the same.
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Lt Col (Join to see)
Ironic, since Air Force uniform regulations specifically prohibit subdued flags because they are not in the color specified by the flag code.
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Not on your day top day clothes, it cause to much chance of damage to the flag, which should be avoided.
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