Should an NCO's APFT score be annotated on the NCOER?

The Pt test is constantly used as the universal measuring stick for what is considered to be "high speed", or a generally a good leader. This is an outdated mentality. Leadership ability is not measured by the number of push-ups you can do. When faced with a leadership challenge, should you drop down and do push-ups until the solution comes to you in a bolt of lightning?
I would rather have an outstanding leader with a mediocre pt score over a pt stud that can't think or apply common sense.
2 minutes of push-ups, sit-ups and running for 2 miles is a horrible indicator of physical fitness. The pt test is a relic of past times and should be discontinued.
That being said, it's mandatory and if you fail it, you should deal with the consequences. The score is blocked out on the ERB because the score is a biased discriminator for selection. Putting the score on the NCOER is circumventing the system in order to showcase what would otherwise be an irrelevant piece of information that could introduce bias.

Absolutly, the NCOER is supposed to be a reflection of the total Soldier.  APFT Bodt Fat and I also believe weapon qual should be reflected on the NCOER. 

I know this is an older discussion, but I just ran across it, also as am retired I guess you can take my response with a grain of salt lol but here it is anyways.....I do not feel that it should be on the NCOER unless it is justifying an Excellence or Needs Improvement Bullet. My reasoning is thus, if they wanted to see every NCOs APFT score it wouldn't be xxx'd out on the ERB that the boards review, to me it is simple as that. By all means if an NCO scores 270+ or fails to achieve a passing score then it needs to be there as justification for the rating, otherwise no I don't feel it should be on there.

Yes...if not, seems something's being hidden and as SSG Beutler pointed out, it'll look unfavorably by centralized promotion board members.

Yes, especially IAW the FY 13 SFC DA Board AAR comments. &nbsp;Only the "270 with 90 in each event" comment is required for excellence and the "needs improvement" requires a numerical score for APFT failure IAW AR 623-3.<br>However, the board pointed out that the absence of a numerical APFT score implies a low APFT score even when a Soldier has a 269 or a permanent profile with 100 in the tested events.<br>Be advised: &nbsp;The ERB seen at your promotion board has the APFT score XXXed out.

The new NCOER will address this. The picture is the new NCOER for SGTs. There will have one for various levels. I like how it addresses when a soldier fails. The rater has to explain why. If you check out the link you can see all of the different drafts that are out there.


http://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Evaluation%20Systems%20Homepage

Yes high ranking NCOs lets base our leadership skill on the AFPT (SARCASM).  What are you old school, or on crack?  I just found out after all these years that medication I was prescribe by army DRS  enlarged my liver, and has destroyed my kidneys (I haven't drank since 2008, so its not alcohol).  I used to do PT 2XS a day.  I was ridiculed, and picked on and always felt the pressure to look more like a Soldier.  The DRS ability to realize that it was possible years ago that it was something internal and medicine induced, not my diet or lifestyle, fell by the wayside, because Soldiers are always PCSing and so do DRS so there isnt continuity, and the relationship starts over and what one DR had possibly scene is now forgotten and goes undiagnosed, but the army and its infinite NCOs that were selected by their buddies for promotion who are now in leadership position, who aren't DRS or even have a clue about medicine have no idea what kind of leaders they are passing up on.  Just keep promoting you buddies, the so called "FIT," Soldiers high up the ranks and keep the toxic leadership at the top.  The SFC boards and above are dependent on NCOERS, and guess what, when a leader just doesn't like their Soldier, not the job performance, that leader will mark 2 and 2, and convince the senior rater to rate poorly.  When this NCOER is at the board, a poorly written NCOER and personal feelings prevent great leaders from rising through the ranks,(even if the rated Soldier has informed their senior that the NCOER is horribly written and is not quantified or qualified, because the ranking NCO has no clue and are offended that their junior knows more and is actually a better leader,)  So AFPT and personal feelings truly aren't making the army better....

Absolutely not, it is forbidden by regulation. DA PAM 623-3 &nbsp;states "<span style="background-color: rgb(246, 247, 248);"><font color="#141823" face="Helvetica, Arial, lucida grande, tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 15 [login to see] 77246px;">APFT numerical scores will not be entered". Additionally, APFT scores are X'ed out of your record when they go before the board.&nbsp;This&nbsp;is in compliance with the regulation.</span></font></span>

<p>Here's my take on this subject...I feel that if you reach by regulation a 270 or above, with 90 on&nbsp;each event then it should be on your NCOER to justify your&nbsp;"Excellence" rating (which I do not totally agree with).&nbsp; In addition, your APFT score should be on there for a "Needs Improvement" rating when an individual failed to meet the standard.&nbsp; However, what bothers me is that, anything short of a 90 on each event is an automatic "Success" rating, and this I do not agree with.&nbsp; The Physical Fitness and Military Bearing portion of the NCOER is not just for APFT scores but yet we continue to use as such.&nbsp; We continue to state that a&nbsp;soldier achieved a 300 APFT score with one or two other weak bullets in this portion.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What happens if this individual does not have the endurance and physical stamina to go the distance in other aspects of military life?&nbsp; What happens when this individual doesn't display confidence and enthusiasm? How about he/she doesn't look like a soldier?&nbsp; What is his/her rating then?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I have given excellence ratings to some of my NCOs who score above a 270 who may have not reached a 90 on each event, but who have continouosly displayed confidence and enthusiasm with their soldier in competing in Half Maratons, Mud Runs, and&nbsp;Fitness Competitions on post.&nbsp; They also go the distance when ramping up for a deployment or CTC rotation when all others have just cut the day short.&nbsp; Is this wrong?&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I believe I am rambling on now.....enjoy!</p>

The APFT or non-APFT is not a definitive decisive factor for a select or non-select for promotion through a centralized promotion board, YET! Watch what happens in the next couple years we'll be going back to the old Cold War mentality," you can't run you can't lead!"