Posted on Apr 9, 2017
Should an officer be allowed to continue to serve on Active Duty after being relieved from command?
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Some officers are meant to command and lead, and others probably should never be allowed the opportunity. I'm a witness to the case of an ousted ex-commander now working as a staff-O "leading" a highly technical department - his lack of technical competence and inability to mentor and lead others is obvious. Should such an officer be "encouraged" to separate or retire early to make room?
Command
Officer
DoD
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 267
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Wow, most of the time quality decisions are made in the military. But, about 25% of the time morons that possess zero common sense effect careers with lasting negative consequences.
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Sure you can encourage them to leave. But really, you need to know why the person was relived. Was it b aide someone, an LT, in the command did something stupid and they had to punish a responsible official. Or was of just overall failures of the unit. Maybe a toxic environment. Just because an officer has a bad command doesn’t mean they have no worth to the organization as a whole. If an NCO gets a company article 15 should he/she be kicked out of the Army? Clearly can’t follow rules so how could they be expected to train the standards to jr enlisted if he/she can’t follow them?
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Here is my take as a Marine for what it is worth. All Officer, SNCO, and NCO our in a leadership roll if it’s over a section to Regiment. If they can not not make sound judgement time and again for the mission and there people then they need to get the boot. Men’s and women’s lives our in there hands and there action effect these lives. One last thing is that not all in the military can lead and with rank comes much responsibility.
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The service should Bring or add the SP 5,6,7,8,9 for NCOs or officers who can’t lead. They can perform better in their expertises. Why have to assign them the leadership positions?
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Leadership is a phenomenal attribute which can not be appointed or achieved through education. I personally know great leaders who were reprimanded for doing what was right for their people and mission, because leadership above them was terrible. Real leadership, in my opinion is: don't read a book and tell somone how to accomplish a task.... show them through your own expertise and experieve!! Stand up fot your people, take the hit, if it is the right thing. Be humble and realize how important one word or action may be to a young subordinate. Treat everyone with respect. And, if necessary, be willing to give everything you have, stay calm, make decisions with confidence and lead!!!
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Frank I am sure that there are reasons which could make a difference HOWEVER, if you were received of command, no. The truth is some O's are better than others. I was very lucky in that none of Officers I have ever worked for, with or worked for me were ever bad officers. I, SF always expected a lot from its O's and NCO's but if you are a problem for SF do you need to go and be a problem for armor?
Frank as I said I am sure details could sway my opinion but that is just kind of how I feel.
Frank as I said I am sure details could sway my opinion but that is just kind of how I feel.
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PV2 Mark Zehner
I was a police officer aa well and saw many who were guilty of perjury and other consciences continue. This caused massive trust issues within the lower ranks
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Maybe they have him marking time until the figure exactly how to can him, or where in Alaska to send him?
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As a junior soldier I have been through numerous commands, and some of my peers made better NCOs than the ones appointed over us, the promotion system has many flaws, your promotion to a new rank should be based off of the knowledge of your job and taking care of you soldiers and experience, rather than if you can click through a power point and attend college. It is great that we push soldiers to go to college but going to college doesn't qualify you to be a leader taking a bus driver or a cpr class doesn't make you a leader. Half of the NCOs in my section are fragile and break under pressure and snap at junior soldier, and this is only working in a civilian hospital, what would happen when bullets start to fly and everyone in your squad looks to you for guidance.
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I was in 3rd AD, we were deactivating soon after returning from Desert Storm so we were turning in vehicles out there for reassignment. We were ordered to powerwash the exterior but one CO of a tank company ordered his men to powerwash the engines-130 degree water vs 2000 degree aluminum-you can guess what happened, a company of M1 Abrams with shattered engines. Rank advancement doesn’t necessarily represent common sense! How he made captain bars in Armored Cav and didn’t think hot turbine engines would be hurt by luke warm water is beyond me!
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The officer in the picture has a striking resemblance to MG Tom Seamands. The finest leader I ever served with.
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Yes the officer should be allowed to serve unless relief was based on lack of integrity/duty/critical core value.
If the relief from Command was based on the lack of a core value of the Army then the soldier/Commission or Non-commissioned will not likely serve past the next promotion or Command board.
If based on something else and the needs of the Army is such that he or she may be valuable and continue to serve.
In the Signal Corps many of the Officers are most valuable in non-Command roles.
Technical skills in many cases are more valuable in the industry, leading to year group losses and the Army can't keep MOS 24, 25, 26, 53 officers in the service long enough. With Cyber being folded into the branch this trend will get even more challenging.
The mix of leadership and technical competence is one of the reasons why many companies seek out military leaders of all levels.
If the relief from Command was based on the lack of a core value of the Army then the soldier/Commission or Non-commissioned will not likely serve past the next promotion or Command board.
If based on something else and the needs of the Army is such that he or she may be valuable and continue to serve.
In the Signal Corps many of the Officers are most valuable in non-Command roles.
Technical skills in many cases are more valuable in the industry, leading to year group losses and the Army can't keep MOS 24, 25, 26, 53 officers in the service long enough. With Cyber being folded into the branch this trend will get even more challenging.
The mix of leadership and technical competence is one of the reasons why many companies seek out military leaders of all levels.
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Up Straight, I disagree. I myself had no business being NCOIC. I should have been left supervising a floor or a work crew, but not an NCOIC.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Hi Gerry,
Thanks for your honest self-assessment of your experience in the Air Force. For some, including myself, it's *very hard* to admit to one's weaknesses and shortcomings when it comes to fulfilling the expectations of certain roles and positions. The situation is made worse when pressure from peers and superiors to take command and advance in rank comes into play.
Early on in my own career, I made the decision to VTIP into the Functional Area 24 (now 26A) program (Network Engineering Officer). I researched and compared the career paths of a basic branch Signal officer and the Functional Area. In doing so, I realized that taking command was not an appealing prospect for me personally. Instead, I enjoy the greater technical focus of the 26A career path and love the intellectual challenge. And, in making this decision, I believe that I am a more effective contributor to the greater success of the Army because my career has aligned better to my talents and aspirations.
I would rather have someone who had (or discovered) an aptitude and passion for command to take command as a basic branch Signal officer than myself.
Thanks for your honest self-assessment of your experience in the Air Force. For some, including myself, it's *very hard* to admit to one's weaknesses and shortcomings when it comes to fulfilling the expectations of certain roles and positions. The situation is made worse when pressure from peers and superiors to take command and advance in rank comes into play.
Early on in my own career, I made the decision to VTIP into the Functional Area 24 (now 26A) program (Network Engineering Officer). I researched and compared the career paths of a basic branch Signal officer and the Functional Area. In doing so, I realized that taking command was not an appealing prospect for me personally. Instead, I enjoy the greater technical focus of the 26A career path and love the intellectual challenge. And, in making this decision, I believe that I am a more effective contributor to the greater success of the Army because my career has aligned better to my talents and aspirations.
I would rather have someone who had (or discovered) an aptitude and passion for command to take command as a basic branch Signal officer than myself.
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I have seen 2 cases where officers relieved of command that were forced to leave the Army within 24 Hours or face courts martial for their actions
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