Posted on Dec 28, 2015
Should Commanders have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment or should this authority be given to JAG alone?
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*Edit. I've adjusted the question so that it is clearer.
I think that Commanders in a garrison environment should have not UCMJ authority especially since UCMJ and Criminal Law in America do not operate under the same standards.
Just to clarify, I am facing a courts martial for alleged sexually assault. I am asking whether Commanders should have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment as opposed to a deployed environment where courts are not readily available.
Additionally, if you view my group at http://www.facebook.com/withutheapp/ you'll cleally see that I am trying to solve the problem. I've been working on the project for a year. So I'm not trying to skirt the judicial process. I'm really just trying to ensure that justice is served.
I think that Commanders in a garrison environment should have not UCMJ authority especially since UCMJ and Criminal Law in America do not operate under the same standards.
Just to clarify, I am facing a courts martial for alleged sexually assault. I am asking whether Commanders should have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment as opposed to a deployed environment where courts are not readily available.
Additionally, if you view my group at http://www.facebook.com/withutheapp/ you'll cleally see that I am trying to solve the problem. I've been working on the project for a year. So I'm not trying to skirt the judicial process. I'm really just trying to ensure that justice is served.
Posted in these groups: 
UCMJ
Article 15
UCMJ Article 15
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 43
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If we lose the ability to discipline our folks for one thing - other things will begin to erode as well. At least at a court marshal one can have representation and present evidence whereas an Article 15 (NJP) the CO does not have to have preponderance of evidence.
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1LT (Join to see)
But don't you think this lends itself to the possibility of abuse? If they don't require more than 50% evidence for a punishable offense, then they could really punish innocent Soldier. I'm not saying that UCMJ shouldn't exist. I'm asking whether UCMJ should be handed over to JAG to handle
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SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury
I have a friend who is in the brig post-conviction for "indecent liberties with a minor." It really floored me when he was convicted. However I don't know what they found at his trial that tipped the scales to a conviction.
Does a court-marshal sometimes fall to pressure to the headlines or outside pressure? I don't know. I hope it wouldn't. I've never seen these proceedings take place (and purposely steered a wide berth of them). That's a question in all honestly that I cannot answer.
Does a court-marshal sometimes fall to pressure to the headlines or outside pressure? I don't know. I hope it wouldn't. I've never seen these proceedings take place (and purposely steered a wide berth of them). That's a question in all honestly that I cannot answer.
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1LT (Join to see)
SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury - Courts Martial panels are composed of a group of military members all senior to the accused. They all cast a ghost ballot (they vote without telling other members their vote) and a 2/3's majority is required for conviction. The panel members are allowed to vote however they see fit. Additionally, at a CM, the panel members are allowed to ask the victims questions.
If you have not seen a CM, I would recommend that you go watch one. They are really enlightening.
If you have not seen a CM, I would recommend that you go watch one. They are really enlightening.
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Again, I've been working on a project for a year to help combat rape and false allegations. It's located at http://www.Facebook.com/withutheapp. My court martial proceedings do not have anything to do with this discussion.
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SrA Paul Pfeil
Actually yes it does because you are in the military claiming to be and officer, and you are running your mouth to veterans and active duty soldiers that are serving or have served honestly. You are in violation of the ucmj, your code of ethics, and your oath of office just talking now. You are a disgrace to those that have served and are serving.
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SPC (Join to see)
SrA Paul Pfeil - It does not actually. regardless of his court martial he still feels the system of military justice is flawed in some way or another.
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Here's another article that might be of interest. Shouldn't these generals and commanders be subject to UCMJ for disobeying orders... I'm trying to be as objective about this as possible; however, people clearly think that attacking my character is the solution.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0UB1B020151228
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0UB1B020151228
Special Report: Pentagon thwarts Obama's effort to close Guantanamo| Reuters
In September, U.S. State Department officials invited a foreign delegation to the Guantanamo Bay detention center to persuade the group to takedetaineeTariq Ba Odah to theircountry. If they succeeded, the transfer would mark a small step toward realizing President Barack Obama's goal of closing the prison before he leaves office.
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1LT (Join to see) LT...something has gone wrong in your path. You mention sexual assault. I don't have the facts to judge you on that. What I do know is, it's very unusual for a 1lt to remain a 1lt for 4 or more years. This doesn't mean that I think you're guilty. It just means that I recognize that this is not the norm. Let's set that aside for a moment.
Your query is one of the silliest I've seen on RP. From contract signing to retirement, every SM is subject to the UCMJ, whether s/he's at home, in his/her car, at church, in the dining hall, at the NYC Museum of Fine Arts....or the Garrison. This is what you signed up for.
In my time, I have seen plenty of people falsely accused of what you're talking about. Also, I've seen plenty rightly accused. I can't tell to which group you belong with the facts I have. But this question is rather inane.
Your query is one of the silliest I've seen on RP. From contract signing to retirement, every SM is subject to the UCMJ, whether s/he's at home, in his/her car, at church, in the dining hall, at the NYC Museum of Fine Arts....or the Garrison. This is what you signed up for.
In my time, I have seen plenty of people falsely accused of what you're talking about. Also, I've seen plenty rightly accused. I can't tell to which group you belong with the facts I have. But this question is rather inane.
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1LT (Join to see)
SN Greg Wright - people here are confusing the two issues. I'm not asking whether they should have sent this to court marital. I'm asking whether commanders should have UCMJ authority in Garrison considering the lack of legal training; however since I am facing a court martial, everyone assumes that I am asking the question because of my situation and this is not the case.
I have been a 1LT for 5 years. I should have been out of the army already; however, this has kept me from getting out.
I have been a 1LT for 5 years. I should have been out of the army already; however, this has kept me from getting out.
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That is the way that military justice is set up. Also it takes high ranking officers to order a court marsh and they have legal staff under them. A company commander doing an art 15 has legal assets to use to review it. Can there be improvements sure but I don't think it is needed of a total overhaul. Another point is that there are military judges that hear court marshals.
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1LT (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - You should read Rules for Courts Martial (RCM). 402 allows Commanders not exercising Court Martial Authority (CMA) to dismiss charges or refer them to a higher authority for disposition. You have to remember that they have CID and CID works for the prosecution ie they aren't an unbiased investigative source. They job is to find evidence to help convict the accused. This is why LTC Yager has made a recommendation to Congress to create another separate entity that is charged with finding the rest of the evidence so that ALL of the evidence is discovered and not just part of it.
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Yes for a mired of reason to include being able to see members in their unit prosecuted for sexual assault vice having charges dropped by a DA ,, because it's Thursday on a 4 day upcoming weekend and they want to get out of town.
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1LT (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez, I don't see your comment as a personal attack. Technically, Soldiers facing UCMJ can still take leave; however, this is not the issue. With my particular case, I have been pending court martial for 16 months and have to wait another 2 months before the court martial. I don't think the members of my unit want to see me prosecuted for sexual assault especially when it is my ex-wife claiming that I sexually assaulted her 5 years ago.
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UCMJ has harsh punishments and a long road to get to them. An Article 15 is a tool to rehabilitate a soldier, not to end their career. Out of of the COUNTLESS times I could have been UCMJ'ed, I have only received a summarized Article 15 once. I wholeheartedly deserved that punishment as well.
Commanders aren't lawyers, but those cats at JAG are. If you are innocent, or even have a good background as a soldier then the UCMJ is going to favor you. If you are blatantly guilty and you still want to try and weasel out of it, you are going to find that the UCMJ process and what it does to your career is very unforgiving.
Commanders aren't lawyers, but those cats at JAG are. If you are innocent, or even have a good background as a soldier then the UCMJ is going to favor you. If you are blatantly guilty and you still want to try and weasel out of it, you are going to find that the UCMJ process and what it does to your career is very unforgiving.
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1LT (Join to see)
If you read LTC Yager's paper on false allegations, then you'll see that UCMJ isn't always as just as people believe. LTC Yager is the Deputy Director, Office of Legal Policy, Office of Under Secretary of Defense.
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1LT (Join to see) - It would be helpful to better respond to this question if you could bracket it with some example(s). To make a broad-brush statement, as you did, invites all the sea-lawyers out of the woodwork. Besides, the oath of enlistment and/or commissioning oath make one immediately subject to the UCMJ.
Edited - To correct SM's name.
Edited - To correct SM's name.
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1LT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) I haven't had any sabot rounds come my way; however, I am facing a courts martial in March for alleged sexual assault. I've been waiting almost 18 months for it. The alleged assaulted happened in July 2014.
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Capt (Join to see)
I mean one can request court marshal instead of accepting non-judicial punishment.
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1LT (Join to see)
But shouldn't the Commander look into the allegation and ensure that it is right to punish the Soldier?
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Also I don't think a commander can take on the role of a federal judge... Considering the fact most commanders don't have bar licenses... As well as to the role of a federal judge is a presidential appointment and Senate confirmation... so I assume it would be illegal for commanders to act as judges.
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