Posted on Dec 28, 2015
Should Commanders have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment or should this authority be given to JAG alone?
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*Edit. I've adjusted the question so that it is clearer.
I think that Commanders in a garrison environment should have not UCMJ authority especially since UCMJ and Criminal Law in America do not operate under the same standards.
Just to clarify, I am facing a courts martial for alleged sexually assault. I am asking whether Commanders should have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment as opposed to a deployed environment where courts are not readily available.
Additionally, if you view my group at http://www.facebook.com/withutheapp/ you'll cleally see that I am trying to solve the problem. I've been working on the project for a year. So I'm not trying to skirt the judicial process. I'm really just trying to ensure that justice is served.
I think that Commanders in a garrison environment should have not UCMJ authority especially since UCMJ and Criminal Law in America do not operate under the same standards.
Just to clarify, I am facing a courts martial for alleged sexually assault. I am asking whether Commanders should have UCMJ authority in a garrison environment as opposed to a deployed environment where courts are not readily available.
Additionally, if you view my group at http://www.facebook.com/withutheapp/ you'll cleally see that I am trying to solve the problem. I've been working on the project for a year. So I'm not trying to skirt the judicial process. I'm really just trying to ensure that justice is served.
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 43
What is your alternative? There is a reason for the difference between the UCMJ and civilian criminal laws. That is because of the difference in what the military does vs. all other jobs. The chain of command needs to maintain discipline in the ranks. That is why there is Article 15. If a commander cannot exercise discipline, what do you think would happen? And a commander does not take any of these actions in isolation. They get legal counsel before any kind of legal action and before most administrative actions.
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LTC (Join to see)
No. Civilian legal entities do not deal with "Failure to obey", "Desertion", or a host of other additional requirements you agreed upon when you signed on the line and raised your hand.
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1LT (Join to see)
LTC (Join to see) Sir, I think JAG would be able to prosecute all UCMJ infractions. Additionally, they would be able to best determine whether offenses could be prosecuted or would be a waste of resources to attempt to prosecute.
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COL Jon Thompson
1LT (Join to see) - Now that I am reading this on my laptop and not my iPhone, I read your entire post as I missed the part about you being charged with sexual assault. I hope you have consulted legal counsel and if I were you, I would ask them about whether or not you should post these things. If you are looking for sympathy to your case, I cannot do that because I don't know any of the details. It is imperative for a commander to have UCMJ authority, which by the way does not change between garrison and deployment. A commander will still go with legal advice from the JAG officer assigned to the unit. That advice will be based on the merits of the case. Your counsel should cover all of that with you and give you advice. If you want, hire a civilian counsel to represent you.
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1LT (Join to see)
COL Jon Thompson, I'm not looking for sympathy at all. I've stated this on multiple posts that this has nothing to do with the allegations made against me. It is simply the question in a vacuum. I've only posted that information at the top because everyone seems to think that any question that I ask on RP is somehow tied to my court martial. I haven't broken any UCMJ articles by asking this question and this is the reason that people are afraid to use/post on RP because of threats like those pointed out by CPT Tony Forbes. Discussions like these help strengthen an organization and are not a detriment to the good order and discipline of a unit. It is my belief that Leaders, who are doing the right things legal AND MORALLY, are not concerned with these types of discussions; however, those who are doing one or the other--but not both--are bother by such discussions.
With regard to SHARP, if you look at my project, WithU, then you'll see that I have not tried to garner sympathy/support from anyone. I simply want to solve the problem inherent to the SHARP program and obtain justice for all parties involved in any SHARP case.
With regard to SHARP, if you look at my project, WithU, then you'll see that I have not tried to garner sympathy/support from anyone. I simply want to solve the problem inherent to the SHARP program and obtain justice for all parties involved in any SHARP case.
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It's simple.
If you don't trust your Commander, or the system, use the Courts Martial. You IMMEDIATELY take it out of their hands. You have a RIGHT to Courts Martial.
If you trust your Local Commander, and the system, use them. You still have the Right to CONSULT Legal Consul. You still have the Right to Appeal the decision.
If you don't trust your Commander, or the system, use the Courts Martial. You IMMEDIATELY take it out of their hands. You have a RIGHT to Courts Martial.
If you trust your Local Commander, and the system, use them. You still have the Right to CONSULT Legal Consul. You still have the Right to Appeal the decision.
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1LT (Join to see)
Sgt Ronald Petroski - This isn't about my court martial, but it appears that this whole discussion has turned into just that... Nonetheless, I do have evidence against these claims, but it doesn't take away from the anxiety.
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Sgt Ronald Petroski
Let the evidence speak for its self. Its like playing cards, never let them see your hand until the last card is dealt. I was also full of anxiety until i played my hand.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
SPC Whitney Olson - Alright. Let's address this point by point.
1) Whose responsibility is it to report in or knowing that you have to report in, ask is there any deviations from standard protocol? Reporting to an NCO/Officer is a basic skill.
2) This is what "Open Door" policies are for. If your PSG is gaffing you off. Especially on career matters, you escalate to the 1SG. I GUARANTEE the 1SG will light him up. If he does it on an NJP matter regarding an appeal during the 5 day "grace" he'll likely end up with one himself. The phrase "If you aren't going to help me, can I speak to the 1SG" does wonders."
3) I realize that you feel that "leadership" may have hung you out to dry (remember, I only see half the story), however remember both the 1SG and the commander reviewed the case against you as well. You would have also had the chance to fight it and present evidence on your behalf.
As I said, failure to exercise your Rights is not the same as not having them. It's a hard lesson, but one you have to remember.
1) Whose responsibility is it to report in or knowing that you have to report in, ask is there any deviations from standard protocol? Reporting to an NCO/Officer is a basic skill.
2) This is what "Open Door" policies are for. If your PSG is gaffing you off. Especially on career matters, you escalate to the 1SG. I GUARANTEE the 1SG will light him up. If he does it on an NJP matter regarding an appeal during the 5 day "grace" he'll likely end up with one himself. The phrase "If you aren't going to help me, can I speak to the 1SG" does wonders."
3) I realize that you feel that "leadership" may have hung you out to dry (remember, I only see half the story), however remember both the 1SG and the commander reviewed the case against you as well. You would have also had the chance to fight it and present evidence on your behalf.
As I said, failure to exercise your Rights is not the same as not having them. It's a hard lesson, but one you have to remember.
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LTC Ray Buenteo
Yeah you go ahead and request a court martial for sexual assault . Let us know how that works out for you.
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Not sure what the issue is. The SM always has the right to turn down NJP and go for trial by court martial. Furthermore, every legal team I've worked with will advise commanders that their ART 15 packets do not meet sufficient evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" if something is lacking.
Have you been a part NJP readings? If not, be advised that these hearings can be about anything from underage drinking to punching cab drivers and vehicular theft. If you took this away from commanders, you would bog down the lawyers beyond their ability to function.
Have you been a part NJP readings? If not, be advised that these hearings can be about anything from underage drinking to punching cab drivers and vehicular theft. If you took this away from commanders, you would bog down the lawyers beyond their ability to function.
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Cpl Benjamin Long
1LT (Join to see) If a person is accused of violating a federal law... Like UCMJ articles... Or title 18 violations.. The sixth amendment states they must have a jury trial to determine guilt or innocence
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Cpl Benjamin Long
1LT (Join to see) The eighth amendment prohibits unusual an cruel punishments and outlaws excessive bail and fines... Punishments don't have to be indentical
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Cpl Benjamin Long
Lt Col Stephen Petzold It's a matter of logistics... Of you jail for zero tolerance then you won't have any employees or troops left in your unit because they will be imprisoned for a variety of ugly rule violations.
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Cpl Benjamin Long
CPL Jay Strickland I think serious crimes should be handed over to civilian courts... Murder and drug trafficking is routine in those court rooms so they would have better judgement.
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If found not guilty you'll be very happy that the garrison leader had lawful authority. If found guilty you'll be afforded due process through appeals.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
Preponderance is 51%. I can see bringing charges, but to convict at that % would be crazy. I am not a lawyer though and we all know this issue has a high degree of scrutiny.
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1LT (Join to see)
CPT Mark Gonzalez This is why there is concern. I did not realize that the SHARP program had so many incentives for filing complaints and all to the detriment of the accused.
..."there were 496 courts and 359 convictions for sexual assaults in FY 2014. If only 10% of allegations are false, then there were at least 461 false allegations, meaning there were statistically more provably false allegations of sexual assaults than there were convictions for sexual assaults in all of DOD in FY2014. Put differently, there was roughly one false allegation for every sex case actually tried, regardless of the outcome of the trials."**
**Page 67 from LTC Reggie Yager's report on Sexual Assaults in the Military.
..."there were 496 courts and 359 convictions for sexual assaults in FY 2014. If only 10% of allegations are false, then there were at least 461 false allegations, meaning there were statistically more provably false allegations of sexual assaults than there were convictions for sexual assaults in all of DOD in FY2014. Put differently, there was roughly one false allegation for every sex case actually tried, regardless of the outcome of the trials."**
**Page 67 from LTC Reggie Yager's report on Sexual Assaults in the Military.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
False allegations exist. However, these numbers also tell me how high the burden of proof must be for only 496 to make it to trial and 2/3’s being convicted. A lot of things fall under the SHARP umbrella though so the numbers are skewed.
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1LT (Join to see)
CPT Mark Gonzalez Sir, this is true. SHARP could be everything from writing emails to full blown rape. I think most people think of SHARP violations as the latter.
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Sir, then whom do you feel should carry the burden of UCMJ authority when situations do not need appearance before a Courts Martial?
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1LT (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) , to be honest, I think that it should be an unbiased party, who is entrusted with the authority to administer punishment under UCMJ. I've met plenty of Soldiers who were scared into accepting a field grade article 15 in lieu of a courts martial because they were afraid that they were going to get kicked out of the Army, if they decided to stand up for themselves.
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Cpl Benjamin Long
Run it through a civilain federal court.. They certainly have authority to hear cases on the matter of federal law.
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SFC Pete Kain
1LT (Join to see) - The Soldier has access to J.A.G and legal counsel. Unless things have changed. As for investigation ...yeah that would be nice, Contact C.I.D. But for most cases that is not needed.
M.P's seriously, do you want them coming in and looking at everything because some PVT got drunk and missed a formation?
M.P's seriously, do you want them coming in and looking at everything because some PVT got drunk and missed a formation?
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1LT (Join to see)
SFC Pete Kain - The Soldier has access to JAG and legal counsel after the Article 15 reading or at least that's what I saw here with one Soldier. They did not allow him to talk to JAG until after his reading.
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SFC Pete Kain
1LT (Join to see) - Well what's the problem then, no need for a lawyer until arrested or charged is there? I don't understand your problem here at all.
Further if facing a Court Martial, you do have the option of retaining a civilian lawyer.
Further if facing a Court Martial, you do have the option of retaining a civilian lawyer.
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MCPO (Join to see) - To say that "[I am] are deserving of everything [that I] have coming to [me]." makes it sound like you hope that the CM finds me guilty, regardless of the evidence. This is really a terrible thing to say in spite. I am not trying to ignore CPT Forbes' advice and having higher rank does not make someone more knowledgeable. I simply asked the question and CPT Forbes indicated that my military career path is indicative of my innocence/guilt, which is a common and incorrect position held by Officers and NCOs in the military.
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So when you began your "working relationship" with TDS they told you to not talk to anyone, and to not go on the internet and talk about your case. So good job not taking their advice. Stop typing now, leave this conversation immediately and stop making this worse for yourself, please...
That being said, Commander=Decision Maker in the military, it can be no other way. Do they convict innocent people at times? Sure, but they also convict a TOOOONNNN of guilty people of bad things as well. I would rather not serve with the LT who was raping underage minors on Fort Carson when I first got there, and so I am glad that there was UCMJ authority to take care of him.
That being said, Commander=Decision Maker in the military, it can be no other way. Do they convict innocent people at times? Sure, but they also convict a TOOOONNNN of guilty people of bad things as well. I would rather not serve with the LT who was raping underage minors on Fort Carson when I first got there, and so I am glad that there was UCMJ authority to take care of him.
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CW3 (Join to see)
He probably hasn't yet. TDS usually doesn't become assigned until you have charges referred.
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SSG Samuel Sohm
CW3 (Join to see) - True so I will rephrase. What are the odds that he has talked to a legal professional in the meantime between whatever act is in question and him finding out that he is being court martialed for sexual assault? I would say slim to none. And I would wager that what he was told first and foremost that you don't talk to anyone, especially on the internet. Even watching Law & Order: SVU shows you the first thing you don't do is talk to anyone about your case that your aren't legally required to.
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Cpl Benjamin Long
I am not sure what case you are referring to in this child molestation accusation.. Who is the alleged defendant?
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1LT (Join to see) Released yesterday:
The MJRG’s proposals for amendments to the UCMJ generally fall into seven categories. The Report’s major proposals would:
Strengthen the Structure of the Military Justice System by—
o Establishing selection criteria for military judges, mandating tour lengths, and requiring appointment of a Chief Trial Judge in each armed force.
o Creating authority for military judges to handle specified legal issues that arise before formal referral of a case to court-martial that would otherwise await a ruling until after referral to court-martial.
o Establishing a military magistrates program as an option for the services, with magistrates authorized to preside over specified pre-referral matters upon designation by a military judge, and to preside with the consent of the parties in the proposed judge-alone special court-martial.
o Establishing a military judge-alone special court-martial as an additional option for disposition, similar to the judge-alone forum in civilian proceedings, with confinement limited to a maximum of six months and no punitive discharge.
o Requiring issuance of guidance on the disposition of criminal cases similar to the U.S. Attorneys Manual, tailored to military needs.
o Mandating additional training for commanders and convening authorities focused on the proper exercise of UCMJ authority.
Enhance Fairness and Efficiency in Pretrial and Trial Procedures by—
o Enhancing victims’ rights by:
Facilitating the opportunity for victim input on disposition decisions at the preliminary hearing stage.
Providing for public access to court documents and pleadings.
Treating victims consistently with regard to defense counsel interviews and access to records of trial.
o Expanding authority to obtain documents during investigations through subpoenas and other process.
o Enhancing the utility of the preliminary hearing for the staff judge advocate and convening authority and providing an opportunity for parties and victims to submit relevant information on the appropriate disposition of offenses.
o Replacing the current variable composition and voting percentages for court-martial panels (military juries) with a requirement for a standardized number of panel members and a consistent voting percentage.
o Requiring, to the greatest extent practicable, at least one defense counsel be learned in the law applicable to capital cases, as in federal civilian courts and military commissions.
Reform Sentencing, Guilty Pleas, and Plea Agreements by—
o Replacing the current sentencing standard (which relies on maximum punishments
with minimal criteria in adjudging a sentence below the maximum) with a system of
judicial discretion guided by parameters and criteria.
o Ensuring that each offense receives separate consideration for purposes of sentencing
to confinement.
o Improving military plea agreements by allowing negotiated ranges of punishments
and adjudged sentences within the range.
o Continuing to permit appeals of sentences by servicemembers, and establishing
government appeals of sentences in circumstances similar to federal civilian practice.
o Providing for the effective implementation of these reforms by establishing
sentencing by military judges in all non-capital trials.
Streamline the Post-Trial Process by—
o Eliminating redundant post-trial paperwork and requiring an entry of judgment by the
military judge similar to federal civilian practice to mark the completion of a special
or general court-martial.
o Establishing restricted authority to suspend sentences in cases in which the military
judge recommends a specific form of suspension and the convening authority
approves a suspension within the military judge’s recommendation.
Modernize Military Appellate Practice by—
o Providing servicemembers, like their civilian counterparts, with the opportunity to
obtain judicial review in all cases.
o Transforming the automatic appeal of cases to the service Courts of Criminal Appeals
into an appeal of right in which the accused, upon advice of appellate defense
counsel, would determine whether to file an appeal.
o Focusing the appeal on issues raised by the parties, with the opportunity for the
Courts of Criminal Appeals to review for plain error.
o Establishing harmless error standards of review for guilty pleas similar to those
applied by the federal civilian courts of appeal.
o Providing for review of issues identified by the accused regarding factual sufficiency
when the appellant makes a sufficient showing to justify relief.
o Permitting the government to appeal a sentence under conditions similar to those
applied by the federal civilian courts of appeal.
o Permitting the government to file interlocutory appeals in general and special courtsmartial
regardless of whether a punitive discharge could be adjudged.
o Continuing to require automatic review of capital cases and requiring, to the greatest
extent practicable, at least one appellate defense counsel be learned in the law
applicable to capital cases.
o Expanding direct review jurisdiction of the Courts of Criminal Appeals primarily with respect to cases in which an accused is sentenced to confinement for more than six months.
Increase Transparency and Independent Review of the Military Justice System by—
o Creating a statute requiring uniform public access to courts-martial documents and pleadings similar to that available in federal civilian courts.
o Establishing an independent blue ribbon panel of experts to conduct periodic reviews of the UCMJ.
Improve the Functionality of Punitive Articles and Proscribe Additional Acts by—
o Creating new enumerated offenses, including:
Article 93a: Prohibited activities with military recruit or trainee by person in position of special trust
Article 121a: Fraudulent use of credit and debit cards
Article 123: Offenses concerning Government computers
Article 132: Retaliation
o Authorizing the President to designate lesser included offenses under legislative criteria.
o Aligning the definition of “sexual acts” in Article 120 with federal civilian law.
o Revising the stalking offense (Article 130) to include cyberstalking and threats to intimate partners.
o Amending the statute of limitations for child-abuse offenses, fraudulent enlistment, and to extend the period when DNA testing implicates an identified person.
o Restructuring the punitive articles of the UCMJ.
o Establishing specific statutory punitive articles to
The MJRG’s proposals for amendments to the UCMJ generally fall into seven categories. The Report’s major proposals would:
Strengthen the Structure of the Military Justice System by—
o Establishing selection criteria for military judges, mandating tour lengths, and requiring appointment of a Chief Trial Judge in each armed force.
o Creating authority for military judges to handle specified legal issues that arise before formal referral of a case to court-martial that would otherwise await a ruling until after referral to court-martial.
o Establishing a military magistrates program as an option for the services, with magistrates authorized to preside over specified pre-referral matters upon designation by a military judge, and to preside with the consent of the parties in the proposed judge-alone special court-martial.
o Establishing a military judge-alone special court-martial as an additional option for disposition, similar to the judge-alone forum in civilian proceedings, with confinement limited to a maximum of six months and no punitive discharge.
o Requiring issuance of guidance on the disposition of criminal cases similar to the U.S. Attorneys Manual, tailored to military needs.
o Mandating additional training for commanders and convening authorities focused on the proper exercise of UCMJ authority.
Enhance Fairness and Efficiency in Pretrial and Trial Procedures by—
o Enhancing victims’ rights by:
Facilitating the opportunity for victim input on disposition decisions at the preliminary hearing stage.
Providing for public access to court documents and pleadings.
Treating victims consistently with regard to defense counsel interviews and access to records of trial.
o Expanding authority to obtain documents during investigations through subpoenas and other process.
o Enhancing the utility of the preliminary hearing for the staff judge advocate and convening authority and providing an opportunity for parties and victims to submit relevant information on the appropriate disposition of offenses.
o Replacing the current variable composition and voting percentages for court-martial panels (military juries) with a requirement for a standardized number of panel members and a consistent voting percentage.
o Requiring, to the greatest extent practicable, at least one defense counsel be learned in the law applicable to capital cases, as in federal civilian courts and military commissions.
Reform Sentencing, Guilty Pleas, and Plea Agreements by—
o Replacing the current sentencing standard (which relies on maximum punishments
with minimal criteria in adjudging a sentence below the maximum) with a system of
judicial discretion guided by parameters and criteria.
o Ensuring that each offense receives separate consideration for purposes of sentencing
to confinement.
o Improving military plea agreements by allowing negotiated ranges of punishments
and adjudged sentences within the range.
o Continuing to permit appeals of sentences by servicemembers, and establishing
government appeals of sentences in circumstances similar to federal civilian practice.
o Providing for the effective implementation of these reforms by establishing
sentencing by military judges in all non-capital trials.
Streamline the Post-Trial Process by—
o Eliminating redundant post-trial paperwork and requiring an entry of judgment by the
military judge similar to federal civilian practice to mark the completion of a special
or general court-martial.
o Establishing restricted authority to suspend sentences in cases in which the military
judge recommends a specific form of suspension and the convening authority
approves a suspension within the military judge’s recommendation.
Modernize Military Appellate Practice by—
o Providing servicemembers, like their civilian counterparts, with the opportunity to
obtain judicial review in all cases.
o Transforming the automatic appeal of cases to the service Courts of Criminal Appeals
into an appeal of right in which the accused, upon advice of appellate defense
counsel, would determine whether to file an appeal.
o Focusing the appeal on issues raised by the parties, with the opportunity for the
Courts of Criminal Appeals to review for plain error.
o Establishing harmless error standards of review for guilty pleas similar to those
applied by the federal civilian courts of appeal.
o Providing for review of issues identified by the accused regarding factual sufficiency
when the appellant makes a sufficient showing to justify relief.
o Permitting the government to appeal a sentence under conditions similar to those
applied by the federal civilian courts of appeal.
o Permitting the government to file interlocutory appeals in general and special courtsmartial
regardless of whether a punitive discharge could be adjudged.
o Continuing to require automatic review of capital cases and requiring, to the greatest
extent practicable, at least one appellate defense counsel be learned in the law
applicable to capital cases.
o Expanding direct review jurisdiction of the Courts of Criminal Appeals primarily with respect to cases in which an accused is sentenced to confinement for more than six months.
Increase Transparency and Independent Review of the Military Justice System by—
o Creating a statute requiring uniform public access to courts-martial documents and pleadings similar to that available in federal civilian courts.
o Establishing an independent blue ribbon panel of experts to conduct periodic reviews of the UCMJ.
Improve the Functionality of Punitive Articles and Proscribe Additional Acts by—
o Creating new enumerated offenses, including:
Article 93a: Prohibited activities with military recruit or trainee by person in position of special trust
Article 121a: Fraudulent use of credit and debit cards
Article 123: Offenses concerning Government computers
Article 132: Retaliation
o Authorizing the President to designate lesser included offenses under legislative criteria.
o Aligning the definition of “sexual acts” in Article 120 with federal civilian law.
o Revising the stalking offense (Article 130) to include cyberstalking and threats to intimate partners.
o Amending the statute of limitations for child-abuse offenses, fraudulent enlistment, and to extend the period when DNA testing implicates an identified person.
o Restructuring the punitive articles of the UCMJ.
o Establishing specific statutory punitive articles to
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1LT (Join to see)
Sir: on the surface, it appears that there are a lot of good changes in the works for UCMJ. The only thing that I don't see in there, which was a recommendation from LTC Reggie Yager, is a separation of treatment for victims, and punishment for either the accused or the victim for lying.
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