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I was a grunt that went ground cav and then air cav. Should it be mandatory to spend time in other specialties to gain appreciation and understanding of the bigger picture? Please share your views and experiences.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 28
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My only concern is that we will only create folks, who while having a smidge of knowledge in a wide variety of areas, will be a master of none.
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SFC Mark Merino
I don't mean to the point of flip flopping. More like the carrot they dangle the officers. We'll train you infantry and let you do an assignment, but then you are civil affairs kind of thing.
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL
Sir, in my career I had 4 MOS and knew just about every piece of equipment in our unit, that dealt with shoot, move and communicate skills. It was called CTT during the 90's and early 2000's. It would enhance Soldier capabilities on the battlefield.
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I would say yes, I had 3 MOS(s) 11D, 11E, 16S during my career. In my experience it was beneificial to the Organization (1/11th ACR, Fulda Germany). There was a time period in the 70s when we did not have enough personnel to have complete 4 man crews on our Tanks or Sheridans. However, for annual Tank Gunnery, the requirement was for every one of those vehicles to go down Table VIII & X ( I seem to recall from back then) even though we did not have the personnel assigned to do so. The Squadron Cdr asked for Volunteers to go from the HQs Troop to one of the Line Troops, train on a crew and try to qualify during gunnery at Graf/Vilseck. By holding the 11D MOS, I jumped at the chance to go. 2 of us had 11D/E background, however the other 6 worked in the Motor Pool, Supply and S1. We were spread out among 8 vehicles/crews, moved into the unita for 2 months, trained and became qualified crew members in either driving, or loading. When Tank Gunnery was over, all 8 M60 and M551 Crews qualified. So I have to give it a definite "YES" that holding more than one MOS is beneficial, both personally and to the organization. But that was ...damn...40 yrs ago...seems like yesterday to me!
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SFC Mark Merino
You rock, Top! What was it like to pony up to a 152mm inside that tiny turret? I spent 3 years in one when I was OPFOR at NTC but they were neutered. They modified them to look like BMPs. No motorized turrets! I had Popeye forearms!!!!!
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1SG (Join to see)
SFC Mark Merino I can still see the road wheels lift off the ground...especially when firing over the side! Inside the turrent....like bouncing around inside of a cloths dryer!
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I could go either way on holding more than one MOS. I see value in it, but wouldn't consider it crucial. What I DO consider crucial is knowing every function within your MOS.
Example: If you are an Infantryman, don't be just a SAW gunner, be an expert Infantryman. By the time you have hard stripes (CPL or above) this is a must, in my book.
Example: If you are an Infantryman, don't be just a SAW gunner, be an expert Infantryman. By the time you have hard stripes (CPL or above) this is a must, in my book.
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SFC Mark Merino
Great point. I'm talking more than just another ASI though. What if you wanted to be a grunt to join the Army, but you had to do a 2 yr stint as an 88M for example? That way, you aren't going to be a master driver, but the Army gets what it needs for the quick fix and you get to be abused at Benning.
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SGT Richard H.
SFC Mark Merino I definitely do see the value in that. Another fine example might be a grunt who did a couple of years as a 12B.....or maybe even better, a 13F. Those would both bring an experience base that could be very valuable to the platoon. For the sake of discussion, though, another angle of thought might be a lack of lower-tier experience in a leader level guy. Let's say a guy did the 2 years or so as a combat engineer, and then joined the infantry platoon as an E-4 (p). Is he really ready to be thrust into a leadership role over a bunch of guys who are very possibly more experienced as infantrymen?
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SGT Richard H.
Just to qualify this, I base it on a specific experience. I was a team leader, and a new SGT joined the squad. Worst damn Infantry team leader I ever saw. I later learned that he spent 6 years as a 71L, and about 3 of those as an E4 (p) and re-enlisted Infantry for the lower promotion point requirement. Essentially, as soon as he finished AIT and earned the MOS, he made the points and was promoted to SGT......with the exact same Infantry experience as the average Private, with the added benefit of PLDC.
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Absolutely. Not only in the military but in any position anywhere. In systems engineering it is called redundancy, and it is vital in keeping your operations running and effective all the time.
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MAJ Joseph Parker
Well put, SGT Birkinbine. Of course, everybody needs to know their basic fighting skills. However, cross training and qualification can make the difference between mission accomplishment and failure. when personnel loses (for whatever reason) begin to add up.
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SFC Mark Merino
Precisely. It is one thing to say that "everyone is a rifleman", but in areas such as aviation, it requires a more practiced skill set.
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I know it helped me, as a prior service Blackhawk mechanic (15T) when I headed off to flight school. My thoughs are, if we do look to get Soldiers dual tracked, then they should be in complimenting MOS's.
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I think it should be your choice not mandatory. The reality is most Soldiers do have more than one specialty, well at least in the Army Reserve. I picked up two MOS's once I joined the Army Reserve because I wanted to relocate and that was the MOS the unit had available. Plus it helps with promotion.
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CW2 (Join to see)
Oh, I completely agree. The knowledge base that more than one MOS provides to a Soldier gives and grants the Soldier, especially leaders the ability to be better rounded and have a more comprehensive idea of how the Army works as a whole. I myself have one MOS and have completed phase I of 2 other MOS's. In my case, unfortunately, I have not been able to complete the MOS's because of unit/budget restrictions but I would definitely recommend that if any Soldier wants to have more opportunities as well as be more well rounded, this is the way.
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SFC Mark Merino
I have great respect for the Guard and Reserves. It is hard to stay committed to the military when life moves you to different locations and you have to start over in a new MOS. It was like going to college on active duty. Every PCS made it harder to finish (prior to the online trend). I would go from psychlogy to public management, to criminal justice, to sociology, etc. etc.....You get your mind set on doing one thing and then BAM....you have to redefine yourself. Well done. And CW2 (Join to see) , Mustang? How cool is that! Great name for a town.
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IF WE ARE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE WERE OFFICALLY TRAINED TO DO THEN YES I AM MORE THAN QUALIFIED IN DUAL SPECIALTIES. DURING MY TIME IN THE SERVICE, AT THE TIME OF MY RETIREMENT I WAS QUALIFIED TO WORK ON THE FOLLOWING AIRCRAFT:
A-6E (LONG SINCE RETIRED)
EA-6B
F-18A-D(E&F TEST BED)
HH-1N SAR HUEY
UH-1N SAR HUEY
MH-53E
AIRBORNE HYDRAULICS
AIRBORNE PNEUMATIC
AIRBORNE STRUCTURES BOTH COMPOSITE AND METALIC
AND AIRCRAFT PAINT, FINAL FINISH, AND TOUCH-UP AND APPLICATION OF EXTERNAL MARKINGS.
SO DO I FEEL THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE TRAINED IN DUAL SPECIALTIES? ABSOLUTELY!!
WHY DO I TYPE IN ALL CAPS? BECAUSE TYPING IS ONE SPECIALTY I HAVEN'T LEARNED YET. AND I CAN'T SPELL TO SAVE MY ASS EITHER.
A-6E (LONG SINCE RETIRED)
EA-6B
F-18A-D(E&F TEST BED)
HH-1N SAR HUEY
UH-1N SAR HUEY
MH-53E
AIRBORNE HYDRAULICS
AIRBORNE PNEUMATIC
AIRBORNE STRUCTURES BOTH COMPOSITE AND METALIC
AND AIRCRAFT PAINT, FINAL FINISH, AND TOUCH-UP AND APPLICATION OF EXTERNAL MARKINGS.
SO DO I FEEL THAT EVERYONE SHOULD BE TRAINED IN DUAL SPECIALTIES? ABSOLUTELY!!
WHY DO I TYPE IN ALL CAPS? BECAUSE TYPING IS ONE SPECIALTY I HAVEN'T LEARNED YET. AND I CAN'T SPELL TO SAVE MY ASS EITHER.
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SFC Mark Merino
PO1 Elwin "Butch" Marriott Please please please tell me you are still in aviation with all that experience! DAMMMMMMNNNNNNN!
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SFC Robin Gates
Good call! Thought you were going to say: Caps Button was Broke, computer maintenance was a N/G.
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PO1 Elwin "Butch" Marriott
I WISH I COULD SAY THAT I WAS STILL IN AVATION BUT A SERVICE RELATED INJURY HAS ME DISABLED AND UNEMPLOYED. IM CURRENTLY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF MY POST 9/11 GI BILL. I ALREADY HAVE MY ASSOCIATES AND WORKING ON MY BS/BA IN MARKETING. I HAVE A VINYL DECAL CUTTER HOBBY AND I DABLE WITH THE OCCASIONAL MOTORCYCLE BUILD. IF YOUR LOOKING FOR SOMETHING SPECIAL DECAL OR STICKER. [login to see]
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Absolutely. I like the Marine Corps mentality of "everyone is a rifelman first." At a minimum every Soldier should go through some form of "school of Infantry" and as your career progresses you should be trained in something that complements your MOS.
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SFC Mark Merino
CW2 Ernest Krutzsch I believe CW3 (Join to see) was referring to how the Marine tag on infantry training (2 weeks I believe) of grunt school. It really solidifies that bond of bonds that the Marines have. I hope I didn't steal your thunder CW3 (Join to see).
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CW2 Ernest Krutzsch
I started as an Infantyman, then Recruiter, then Counterintelligene, I think everyone should be Infantry for the 1st 2 years, (I was for 11 years)
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I can see how beneficial this would be however...I don't want to be infantry :(
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Lol well I'm a photojournalist now so...I was thinking perhaps combat camera or broadcast journalist ;)
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PO1 Elwin "Butch" Marriott
BEST TO GET THE TRAINING, JUST INCASE. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW, I NEVER SAW THE FIELD, I SPENT 8 YEARS GOOFING OFF ON SHIPS WITH A SPINAL INJURY AND NOTHING BUT 2400-7200 MG'S OF MOTRIN DAILY FOR PAIN KILLERS. SO NOW IM RETIRED, A VETERAN WITH SERVICE CONNECTED DISABILITY THAT STOPS AT 70% AND AM FACING SURGERY THAT HAS A 40% CHANCE OF LEAVING ME PARALIZED. I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO HAVE BEEN INFANTRY BECAUSE THEN AT LEAST A BULLET WOULD HAVE GOTTEM MY DOCTOR OFF HIS ASS AND OUT OF WEB MD AND HE WOULD HAVE REALIZED EARLY ON THAT I BROKE MY BACK IN 2003.
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I had three specialties, communacations, maintenance and civil engineers. So in my opinion it doesn't hurt to be trained in more then one speciality it makes you more valuable.
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SFC Mark Merino
My point exactly. It's great to see the bigger picture and to be an "advisor" to commanders who are out of their comfort zones.
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CPT (Join to see)
SFC Mark Merino The issue really becomes how knowledgeable you are in that area. If I am sent to a sustainment brigade to fill a staff position and pick up another branch I wouldn't lose the most current TTP of the infantry. It could be dangerous going off something that was used in the past that is not used now. There would be no way to maintain any proficiency commanding a bradley platoon I were in a Sustainment BDE. If I had to return to a Infantry company as a commander I would also have to catch back up. It could even hinder a soldier. I don't think one should have to pick up additional MOS but going to schools and training in addition to what you may be dealing with is fine.
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SFC Richard Haugh
Absolutely - bottom line it will only help you in your civilian life... 21 years of military - I had a boat load of skills that help forge my life today.
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