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I was a grunt that went ground cav and then air cav. Should it be mandatory to spend time in other specialties to gain appreciation and understanding of the bigger picture? Please share your views and experiences.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 28
As a combat medic I experienced what you're referring to, but only to an extent. I spent time with armor, infantry, and cavalry scouts and with each group I picked up on new knowledge and the specific culture of those I was assigned to at the time. I very briefly trained up and assigned as the unit audiology tech, so I was able to get a small idea of how the med clinic side of the house operates. While it was definitely beneficial to me to be exposed to so many different specialties I think it would be difficult to make this mandatory for those MOSs where this doesn't exist naturally. LTC Labrador made an excellent comment when he mentioned his concerns for a "jack of all trades, master of none" endgame if this was applied.
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Seeing things from a different perspective, especially being a Sr NCO, comes when you do staff time....I learned a great deal of perspective about how things work when I deployed for OIF-III as the S-2 NCOIC as compared to OIF-I when I was a tank PSG. I don't know that it is necessary to be dual-trained in differing MOSs to gain appreciation or have a better understanding of the larger picture. But, that's just my opinion of things.
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SFC Mark Merino
You bring up a key point. Admin is critical! You have to be able to leave the "trenches" and have an understanding of the S-shops at the senior level as well.
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I think everyone should be trained in dual specialties as long as the job is similar to their own. For instance alot of times 25B/25U are used exactly the same when they are not.
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SFC Mark Merino
I agree 100% with you WO1 (Join to see) If we are going to be trimming and trimming and trimming the "fat" I would rather have a larger scope of responsibility instead of having an almost redundant MOS and no money to train, or old equipment.
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Well, we don't have that worry about "Should we..." because every Marine IS dual specialty. From Boot Camp, we all know... We will have a job yes, but when necessary, we can be called upon to be used in our OTHER job, that of Marine Rifleman.
Coming from a Marine family, I remember being surprised that other services were not the same, of course, I have since put some thought into that, and realized that 'it is, what it is..' and each service is different, no better or worse, just different.
As to the view that neither job can be done to the best of one's ability when there are dual specialties, you'd have to ask someone who had a more techincal job than mine... Driving large trucks is not all that technical and quite frankly, I was never called upon to slide from one to the other, though I have no doubt that I could have done so without terrifying those around me... which is more than I can say for my cooking skills.
Coming from a Marine family, I remember being surprised that other services were not the same, of course, I have since put some thought into that, and realized that 'it is, what it is..' and each service is different, no better or worse, just different.
As to the view that neither job can be done to the best of one's ability when there are dual specialties, you'd have to ask someone who had a more techincal job than mine... Driving large trucks is not all that technical and quite frankly, I was never called upon to slide from one to the other, though I have no doubt that I could have done so without terrifying those around me... which is more than I can say for my cooking skills.
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MAJ (Join to see)
The Army is no different regarding infantry skills. All soldiers go through the same basic training and learn basic infantry skills. It's part of every soldiers skill set.
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SFC Mark Merino
I agree with both of you about the rifleman first but the Marines do spend a couple extra weeks teaching small unit infantry tactics and advanced rifle marksmanship. I have always respected the Corps for going the extra mile on that one.
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I don't think spending time outside your specialty really gives you a better understanding of the big picture. Yes my time as a mechanic in a DS shop, my time as a supply sergeant, and my time as a company operations sergeant all gave me a better understanding of how a company and battalion works but they didn't really give me a better understanding of the big picture anymore than changing duty stations or units did. What gave me a better understanding of that bigger picture was the times when I was removed from the line unit and put in a position where I was working with the bigger picture. Working along side other branches and even other countries has given me a better understanding than any change in MOS would. Now I will admit I've been given / had opportunities that many won't ever get but that only has shown me that working beside an Armor or Supply company is not comparison to working in a joint command environment when. That's when you really get to see where each branch has its strengths and weaknesses.
And if you want bonus points throw some DA, DoD, and State department civilians into the mix and see how much fun that can be.
And if you want bonus points throw some DA, DoD, and State department civilians into the mix and see how much fun that can be.
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It only makes sense if the those dual specialties actually compliment each other. Too many officers and NCO's get off on some other specialty for too long and their primary specialty suffers. It is difficult enough to be a proficient leader in any field without getting sidetracked by, at times, irrelevant duty or training. A great (simple) example is Airborne School. Biggest waist of time and money in the US Army for those that are not Infantry. Why is it even offered to non-infantry but many do it for the badge. I have a unique perspective after doing 26 rotations at the NTC as a Platoon and Company trainer watching officers and senior NCO's embarrass themselves repeatedly because they spent to much time at a desk, doing irrelevant training or off specialty to long. To me all training should be relevant or people needlessly die in war or otherwise.
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SFC Mark Merino
Another OPFOR victim! My condolences, Sir. Thanks for helping to point out their deficiencies. NTC is a rude awakening for some. I love how they try to blame the OC's.
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SFC,
I love this idea and wish that it would be put into practice. As someone who is "support staff," I'd love to go out and see what my contributions to the cause actually accomplish.
I love this idea and wish that it would be put into practice. As someone who is "support staff," I'd love to go out and see what my contributions to the cause actually accomplish.
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SFC Marino: Not only dual specialties (assuming you mean MOS), but also skill training with additional skill identifiers (ASI). For example: weapons, languages, maintenance, medical, Ranger and other special combat skills, communications, etc. Nothing like having an extra doc around when all the others are gone! Also, most of us speak the enemy's language in 3-6 round bursts, but sometimes it's even more handy to have someone who can communicate orally and get some information first.
You posed your question, however, from a personal development point of view. The military is packed full of schooling for a reason. From an organizational point of view, professional development for enlisted is as mandatory as it needs to be to sort out the go-getters from the sedentary moss. As a commander I sent as many of my people to as many schools as possible. If there were no slots available, they stood "in the door" on the first day of class with their orders and filled in for anybody who did not show up. My entire Scout Platoon in a leg Infantry BN was airborne and pathfinder qualified. The maintenance platoon in the motor pool could have fixed a Titan missile (a bit of hyperbole). Nonetheless, the promotion and re-enlistment rate in my company was the highest on post.
You posed your question, however, from a personal development point of view. The military is packed full of schooling for a reason. From an organizational point of view, professional development for enlisted is as mandatory as it needs to be to sort out the go-getters from the sedentary moss. As a commander I sent as many of my people to as many schools as possible. If there were no slots available, they stood "in the door" on the first day of class with their orders and filled in for anybody who did not show up. My entire Scout Platoon in a leg Infantry BN was airborne and pathfinder qualified. The maintenance platoon in the motor pool could have fixed a Titan missile (a bit of hyperbole). Nonetheless, the promotion and re-enlistment rate in my company was the highest on post.
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SFC Mark Merino
.....and the Bald Eagles fishing on American lake!!! My mental hygiene was crab fishing off the Stillicum dock on the back side of north fort.
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SGT Richard H.
MAJ Joseph Parker I could have used you as my Commander more than once! I can't even tell you how many schools I asked for and was told "there are no slots" or "we don't have the budget"
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MAJ Joseph Parker
I hope some young officers and commanders read my posts because these aren't reminiscences. This is how to get it done. No on-base school has 100% fill. Somebody always fails to show up. It costs $0 for on-base schools. A good CDR and 1SG will get standby orders for a school by speaking sincerely with the school NCO or CDR and getting order cut. I know officers who got into WEST POINT that way, including one of my own classmates.
Money for a TDY school is another issue. There is ALWAYS money. Knowing where and when to get it is important. In August and September a lot of that "no money" suddenly has to be spent, so if a CDR has a bunch of training slots already in hand and orders ready to be signed, he's golden. Also, every base has units with training money they don't use or training slots they don't want. The CDR has to go find those units and have something to offer them in return. It's a barter system, but it works.
Money for a TDY school is another issue. There is ALWAYS money. Knowing where and when to get it is important. In August and September a lot of that "no money" suddenly has to be spent, so if a CDR has a bunch of training slots already in hand and orders ready to be signed, he's golden. Also, every base has units with training money they don't use or training slots they don't want. The CDR has to go find those units and have something to offer them in return. It's a barter system, but it works.
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I hold 2 MOS's and will be attending another school in a couple months. Being well rounded is not a bad thing. There just needs to be ample type of training to ensure that soldiers are well trained in that field. Cross training is great, but we want to avoid having a bunch of soldiers who think they 'know everything' because they have spent some time training in that specialty.
That would be like in my old unit: I was a recovery NCO. 91H,91B Recovery qualified. It was awesome. But, we had to teach those that were cooks, and transpo etc how to do recovery. "In case they ever needed to do it"
I am sorry, a transportation specialist cannot get enough training in one week to properly utilize the the wrecker or the Hercules. There are some things that should be left to the specialist, and some things... Meh. Go for it I suppose.
That would be like in my old unit: I was a recovery NCO. 91H,91B Recovery qualified. It was awesome. But, we had to teach those that were cooks, and transpo etc how to do recovery. "In case they ever needed to do it"
I am sorry, a transportation specialist cannot get enough training in one week to properly utilize the the wrecker or the Hercules. There are some things that should be left to the specialist, and some things... Meh. Go for it I suppose.
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SFC Mark Merino
Agreed. I was aviation and line troops are always working on overdrive to make mission. For some reason, DA was convinced that we should only be allocated about half of the personnel that we needed. It was an absolute bear to be able to break away and work on other tasks. It got to the point that I would have to put in notice to the Squadron Commander that we HAD to take no fly periods just so I could work with the crewdogs on anything other than turning wrenches. We would do sling load recoveries of "downed aircraft" with our sister lift units and then we would send a slice off to the armament sections to learn how to upload/download ordinance in case the FARP (rearming/refueling areas) ever got overrun and we lost the armament dawgs. I wasn't trying to get them certified as armament repairers, but it was good to know that we could multi-multi task in combat.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Marines aren't they all riflemen first? As for the Army, we are all taught the bare basic stuff but them we move onto whatever specialty we are. As someone else had said many are then cross trained depending on the unit they are working with. And it is not uncommon for soldiers to have more than one MOS... but the thing is proficiency. The more you broaden your training the better your overall skillset will be but, then that may be detriment to your overall performance... just an opinion.
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SGT Richard H.
In spite of my previous comments, I should mention that I was a Marine first, and the "every Marine is a rifleman first" philosophy that the Marine Corps lives by is absolutely one that I believe in.
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PO3 (Join to see)
well same could be said about being a corpsman in some aspects. if our nec is 8404/0000 then at a hospital we can be put to work in any dept. with marines no matter what your nec there is a chance that you may be seeing sickcall patients.
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