Posted on Feb 17, 2016
Should I be eligible to receive retroactive promotion to Sergeant under guidelines set forth in AR 600-8-19, paras. 3-30, 3-31 f., and 3-34?
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I apologize if this is long and dry. So, backstory... Pt test in March passing, flag removed for ABCP. Recommended Promotion board and passed in September, points submitted in October for 1 November promotion. PT Test taken in October, passed. Points submitted in November for 1 December promotion.
Points submitted 30 November at 512, due to upcoming adjustments to prepare for new promotion points systems due to start in January. October's PT test results finally hit 1 December, but a Miscalculation of PT score (no factor of 3rd score calculated) flagged the system as a failing grade (removed from eligibility).
Upon discovery, Dec 2nd, set up a time to do an update with S-1; "Unfortunately" changes had already taken effect, so points could not be resubmitted, even though the record was corrected to put me back on recommendation list. Under old promotion system, update (which settled 4 Dec) would have shown 531 points. Primary zone points came out at 505.
After consultation with HRC by email, I was referred to AR 600–8–19. This is what I discovered.
AR 600-8-19 says:
"3-30 Rules for reinstating soldiers to recommended list" (in order to've be reinstated, you have to be removed, right? I was, by a clerical error, so... Sub para "a" doesn't apply, as I haven't been promoted yet, much less, in error)
"b. A Soldier removed from a list and later exonerated of the basis that caused the removal will be reinstated. To be exonerated, the action that caused the initial removal must've been erroneous or should not have been imposed so that the soldier is free of any wrongdoing."
"c. If the soldier was eligible for promotion prior to reinstatement, the DORand effective date of promotion will be the date of original eligibility."
Furthermore, I was directed to review paragraph 3–31, subparagraph "f" and paragraph 3–34, and it's entirety.
"3–31. Rules for Headquarters, Department of the Army promotion point cutoff scores (Regular Army and United States Army Reserve Active Guard Reserve only)"
"F. No soldier will be promoted as an administrative records correction when a determination is made that their automated promotion score is in accurate as a result of missing personnel or training data. Immediate action must be taken to update the supporting personnel and training databases to capture accurate information so updated automated promotion scores can be utilized to determine the following month's established cutoff scores. For USAR AGR, failure to input promotion points into AGRMIS database will not be sufficient basis for an administrative records correction for promotion."
[This paragraph does not appear to apply to my situation, because the promotion score was not in accurate as a result of missing personnel or training data. Training data was updated upon receipt.]
"3–34. Rules for processing administrative records correction (Regular Army and US Army Reserve Active Guard Reserve)"
"Administrative records correction is a process aimed at achieving personnel and/or training database accuracy used to establish SGT and SSG promotions. Administrative records correction requests must be fully justified, signed by the promotion authority (LTC or above), and sent to commander, US army human resources command (AHRC–PDV–PE), 1600 Spearhead Division Ave., department 472, Fort Knox, KY 40122-5407, or email [login to see] for approval. All supporting documentation specific to the request must be in Cleveland or the request will be returned without action. Requests due to system errors will be approved if the system error can be substantiated. Soldiers may be eligible for a retroactive promotion under the administrative records correction process if he or she would have made the DA promotion point cut off score, but was in a suspension of favorable personnel action status and he or she was exonerated, the case was closed favorably, or removed as erroneously flagged/submitted, provided this soldier was otherwise qualified in accordance with paragraph 1–10. Failure on behalf of the soldier, unit, BN HR or HR specialist to update a soldier's record (that is, APFT, weapons qualification, military or civilian education, awards), integrate a soldier onto the promotion recommendation list timely, or failure to remove a flag is not grounds for reconsideration under the administrative records correction process. If the BN HR or HR specialist has problems with updating a soldiers promotion record, immediately contact HRC at the above email for assistance."
[Either way, before I was erroneously removed, after the erroneous clerical error was caught, and update performed, I would have made points. This was not a failure, on anyone's part, to update in a timely manner. This was simply an erroneous clerical error, that resulted in my non-promotion.]
I was told today, by phone, that if HRC could not do anything about it, I could request an army records review board. Should I attempt? I want to stay in. I love my job, and would love nothing more than to continue my military service. Performance wise, I have been recognized for my work, accountability, and professionalism. My only issues in 13 consecutive years of service (national guard time included) have been physical fitness, and most recently, since I am on a permanent profile, body composition.
Points submitted 30 November at 512, due to upcoming adjustments to prepare for new promotion points systems due to start in January. October's PT test results finally hit 1 December, but a Miscalculation of PT score (no factor of 3rd score calculated) flagged the system as a failing grade (removed from eligibility).
Upon discovery, Dec 2nd, set up a time to do an update with S-1; "Unfortunately" changes had already taken effect, so points could not be resubmitted, even though the record was corrected to put me back on recommendation list. Under old promotion system, update (which settled 4 Dec) would have shown 531 points. Primary zone points came out at 505.
After consultation with HRC by email, I was referred to AR 600–8–19. This is what I discovered.
AR 600-8-19 says:
"3-30 Rules for reinstating soldiers to recommended list" (in order to've be reinstated, you have to be removed, right? I was, by a clerical error, so... Sub para "a" doesn't apply, as I haven't been promoted yet, much less, in error)
"b. A Soldier removed from a list and later exonerated of the basis that caused the removal will be reinstated. To be exonerated, the action that caused the initial removal must've been erroneous or should not have been imposed so that the soldier is free of any wrongdoing."
"c. If the soldier was eligible for promotion prior to reinstatement, the DORand effective date of promotion will be the date of original eligibility."
Furthermore, I was directed to review paragraph 3–31, subparagraph "f" and paragraph 3–34, and it's entirety.
"3–31. Rules for Headquarters, Department of the Army promotion point cutoff scores (Regular Army and United States Army Reserve Active Guard Reserve only)"
"F. No soldier will be promoted as an administrative records correction when a determination is made that their automated promotion score is in accurate as a result of missing personnel or training data. Immediate action must be taken to update the supporting personnel and training databases to capture accurate information so updated automated promotion scores can be utilized to determine the following month's established cutoff scores. For USAR AGR, failure to input promotion points into AGRMIS database will not be sufficient basis for an administrative records correction for promotion."
[This paragraph does not appear to apply to my situation, because the promotion score was not in accurate as a result of missing personnel or training data. Training data was updated upon receipt.]
"3–34. Rules for processing administrative records correction (Regular Army and US Army Reserve Active Guard Reserve)"
"Administrative records correction is a process aimed at achieving personnel and/or training database accuracy used to establish SGT and SSG promotions. Administrative records correction requests must be fully justified, signed by the promotion authority (LTC or above), and sent to commander, US army human resources command (AHRC–PDV–PE), 1600 Spearhead Division Ave., department 472, Fort Knox, KY 40122-5407, or email [login to see] for approval. All supporting documentation specific to the request must be in Cleveland or the request will be returned without action. Requests due to system errors will be approved if the system error can be substantiated. Soldiers may be eligible for a retroactive promotion under the administrative records correction process if he or she would have made the DA promotion point cut off score, but was in a suspension of favorable personnel action status and he or she was exonerated, the case was closed favorably, or removed as erroneously flagged/submitted, provided this soldier was otherwise qualified in accordance with paragraph 1–10. Failure on behalf of the soldier, unit, BN HR or HR specialist to update a soldier's record (that is, APFT, weapons qualification, military or civilian education, awards), integrate a soldier onto the promotion recommendation list timely, or failure to remove a flag is not grounds for reconsideration under the administrative records correction process. If the BN HR or HR specialist has problems with updating a soldiers promotion record, immediately contact HRC at the above email for assistance."
[Either way, before I was erroneously removed, after the erroneous clerical error was caught, and update performed, I would have made points. This was not a failure, on anyone's part, to update in a timely manner. This was simply an erroneous clerical error, that resulted in my non-promotion.]
I was told today, by phone, that if HRC could not do anything about it, I could request an army records review board. Should I attempt? I want to stay in. I love my job, and would love nothing more than to continue my military service. Performance wise, I have been recognized for my work, accountability, and professionalism. My only issues in 13 consecutive years of service (national guard time included) have been physical fitness, and most recently, since I am on a permanent profile, body composition.
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 5
Something like this happened to me in Korea... Short story my 1SG asked if I had a copy of the promotion list where my named appeared indicating that I supposed to be promoted and that was pretty much what I needed. Now I don't know how the Army have changed since then.
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SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz
He is doing great... Still in the NG... We communicate very often.... You two are my only brother-in-arms still in the service.
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SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz
I don't know if you remember he was the best man in my wedding and left us an easter egg on wedding pictures... Lol.
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Exact same thing happened to me they gave me a zero for my run score…
HRC will not back data promotion…
HRC will not back data promotion…
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
Thanks for that information, SSG James Elmore . I'm hearing that this is the case, but it seems like that practice may be out of line with guidance in this regulation. With my ETS coming quickly, I don't have time to play with it to get more points, so I'm trying to fight it.
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SSgt (Join to see)
SPC Matthew Birkinbine - I'd your etsing is coming up, less than 365 days, you may not be promoted since you don't have enough time left on your contract.
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SSG James Elmore
SPC Matthew Birkinbine - HRC actually put out a policy letter saying they will not backdate promotions, I wish I could remember what I did with the link that takes you to it.
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SFC (Join to see)
It appears as though the original error was due to miscalculation of your APFT, which is considered a personal error. HRC will not back date in that situation. Also, I hope I’m reading this correctly, if points was submitted in 30 November, which cutoff are you referring too because it wouldn’t be effective until cutoff for 1 January. SPC Matthew Birkinbine
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
SGM Erik Marquez
This is not my issue, it is SPC Matthew Birkinbine issue, I was merely trying to get some people who would be better suited to help him out! Thank you for assisting this Soldier!
This is not my issue, it is SPC Matthew Birkinbine issue, I was merely trying to get some people who would be better suited to help him out! Thank you for assisting this Soldier!
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
Gentlemen, I appreciate your attention to this. SPC(P) Jay Heenan , for calling on SME's, and SGM Erik Marquez , for your professional and personal input. I followed up with my company commander today on the issue and his words sounded a lot like yours. I appreciate that. I will press on, my next step is to approach the promotion authority, and gauge where his position is on this, to determine my next course of action.
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SPC Matthew Birkinbine
Also, I haven't lost hope. I am still working on any area that I can affect or have a change on.
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