Posted on Dec 5, 2019
Should I be held responsible for missing tools for which I was assigned, but didn't lose?
6.05K
40
26
4
4
0
Looking for advice from someone on the outside looking in.
I’m currently a mechanic. I signed for a toolbox. The toolbox has a lock and key that I also signed for. We have a key control box that we keep all keys in and it should be locked and only accessed by the designated key control/key control NCOIC. My key for my toolbox has been in said key control box. About a month ago, there was a misunderstanding on which toolbox was who’s and they grabbed my key, gathered pretty much half my toolbox, and took it to a job. All of this was done without my knowledge or permission to use my toolbox. After having to continuously tell my NCOs that the toolbox they ended up taking tools out of was mine, they told the soldier using the tools. When he finished his job, three days later, he came up to me with a toolbag full of my tools for me to put up. I’m also in charge of gathering our AOAP for 30+ vehicles and turning it in. The day he tried to give me the tools, I told him I was currently tasked out and to go find key control, get my key, and put them up since he used them and I was busy at the moment dealing with AOAP. There were no objections, and I went on about my business.
Fast forward to about two weeks ago. I’m reclassing soon and am getting ready to turn in my toolbox. I grab my key and open it to do a final inventory before I take it to my PL to turn in, and low and behold, my tools were never put up, and they have yet to be found.
The soldier I asked to put them up after he finished using them said he set them down to go look for the key, and when he came back they were gone.
After explaining the situation to my PL, PSG, Section NCO, and other people, I’ve been told that regardless of how it happened, I’m held responsible, because I’m signed for it. So now I’m about to face upwards to $400 worth of statement of charges for an incident that happened that I had no knowledge of because my key was checked out by the key control without my knowledge, my tools were used, and then lost.
My question is, should I be held responsible for this? Because yes it was my toolbox, but the key control was the one who checked out my key and I had no idea this was happening. Also, the key control has a habit of not signing things out and just handing out keys, so if there is no documentation of them checking out my key, should the key control NCO be held responsible? Because if they wouldn’t have loaned my key out to begin with, the tools wouldn’t have been used, or lost, and I wouldn’t be in this situation. I don’t know if I should decline the SOC and initiate a FLIPL or really what to do. All I know is I personally don’t feel like I need to pay all that money for the lack of responsibility of other people’s property and using my property without me there or without my permission.
I’m currently a mechanic. I signed for a toolbox. The toolbox has a lock and key that I also signed for. We have a key control box that we keep all keys in and it should be locked and only accessed by the designated key control/key control NCOIC. My key for my toolbox has been in said key control box. About a month ago, there was a misunderstanding on which toolbox was who’s and they grabbed my key, gathered pretty much half my toolbox, and took it to a job. All of this was done without my knowledge or permission to use my toolbox. After having to continuously tell my NCOs that the toolbox they ended up taking tools out of was mine, they told the soldier using the tools. When he finished his job, three days later, he came up to me with a toolbag full of my tools for me to put up. I’m also in charge of gathering our AOAP for 30+ vehicles and turning it in. The day he tried to give me the tools, I told him I was currently tasked out and to go find key control, get my key, and put them up since he used them and I was busy at the moment dealing with AOAP. There were no objections, and I went on about my business.
Fast forward to about two weeks ago. I’m reclassing soon and am getting ready to turn in my toolbox. I grab my key and open it to do a final inventory before I take it to my PL to turn in, and low and behold, my tools were never put up, and they have yet to be found.
The soldier I asked to put them up after he finished using them said he set them down to go look for the key, and when he came back they were gone.
After explaining the situation to my PL, PSG, Section NCO, and other people, I’ve been told that regardless of how it happened, I’m held responsible, because I’m signed for it. So now I’m about to face upwards to $400 worth of statement of charges for an incident that happened that I had no knowledge of because my key was checked out by the key control without my knowledge, my tools were used, and then lost.
My question is, should I be held responsible for this? Because yes it was my toolbox, but the key control was the one who checked out my key and I had no idea this was happening. Also, the key control has a habit of not signing things out and just handing out keys, so if there is no documentation of them checking out my key, should the key control NCO be held responsible? Because if they wouldn’t have loaned my key out to begin with, the tools wouldn’t have been used, or lost, and I wouldn’t be in this situation. I don’t know if I should decline the SOC and initiate a FLIPL or really what to do. All I know is I personally don’t feel like I need to pay all that money for the lack of responsibility of other people’s property and using my property without me there or without my permission.
Posted in these groups: 
Mechanic
Maintainer
Mechanic Maintainer
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 9
If you decline to sign the statement of charges, it will likely be investigated. To hold you accountable and to make you pay, three things need to be established:
1. You were responsible for the equipment,
2. You were negligent, and
3. Your negligence was the cause of the loss of the equipment.
From the details you provided in your narrative, you were clearly responsible, at least initially (direct responsibility due to having signed for the equipment). It is questionable that you were negligent. Yes, you didn't report anything missing in a timely manner, and an investigator could determine that is indeed being negligent. However, the failure to report the missing items in a timely manner didn't cause the items to go missing. Thus, based on the details that you provided, your negligence didn't cause the loss, so any investigating officer should determine that you're not at fault.
Sounds like whoever grabbed your key and took your toolbox might be on the hook. They assumed personal responsibility when they took your toolbox, so the investigation will have to determine whether or not they returned all of the items. If they can determine that, then it's back to you. If they can't, it will focus on them.
1. You were responsible for the equipment,
2. You were negligent, and
3. Your negligence was the cause of the loss of the equipment.
From the details you provided in your narrative, you were clearly responsible, at least initially (direct responsibility due to having signed for the equipment). It is questionable that you were negligent. Yes, you didn't report anything missing in a timely manner, and an investigator could determine that is indeed being negligent. However, the failure to report the missing items in a timely manner didn't cause the items to go missing. Thus, based on the details that you provided, your negligence didn't cause the loss, so any investigating officer should determine that you're not at fault.
Sounds like whoever grabbed your key and took your toolbox might be on the hook. They assumed personal responsibility when they took your toolbox, so the investigation will have to determine whether or not they returned all of the items. If they can determine that, then it's back to you. If they can't, it will focus on them.
(7)
(0)
SGT(P) (Join to see)
Thank you for your response, sir. I will keep this in mind in the upcoming days!
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
This isn't a legal matter, it's a command supply issue. As others pointed out, you will probably be found partly at fault because you didn't check them and never reported them missing.
The first step is to contact your supply SGT or XO and tell them you want to initiate a FLIPL. They will assign an investigating officer who will interview and determine fault. This is where the common sense part comes in and the part where your NCOs took your keys improperly is taken into account. You could be completely at fault, partly, or not at all. You want to begin this immediately because you're not supposed to be able to clear a unit with an open FLIPL and they can take 75 days to complete once assigned.
The first step is to contact your supply SGT or XO and tell them you want to initiate a FLIPL. They will assign an investigating officer who will interview and determine fault. This is where the common sense part comes in and the part where your NCOs took your keys improperly is taken into account. You could be completely at fault, partly, or not at all. You want to begin this immediately because you're not supposed to be able to clear a unit with an open FLIPL and they can take 75 days to complete once assigned.
(3)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
WO1 (Join to see) that's my point is that it's not a legal issue but one outlined in supply regulations. His supply Sergeant or XO can start one. He can either accept the SOC or contest responsibility for it which would initiate a FLIPL.
It's a common misconception that JAG is the expert on everything involving regulations. All they will do is open AR 735-5, read it, and recite it to the Soldier. The best person to help him out will be the battalion S4 NCOIC who will have the most experience handling and processing them.
It's a common misconception that JAG is the expert on everything involving regulations. All they will do is open AR 735-5, read it, and recite it to the Soldier. The best person to help him out will be the battalion S4 NCOIC who will have the most experience handling and processing them.
(1)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
WO1 (Join to see) simple refusal to sign a statement of charges can get the flipl ball rolling. Write up a good sworn ststement outlining the events snd timeline. Points: are you signed for it? Yes. Do you have sole access to it? It appears not. Did they sign out the key according to proper key control procedures? In all actuality your leadership CAN be found partially liable: supervisory responsibility. Supply sergeant dont assign investigating officers though, commanders do. And investigating officers dont find fault. They make reccomendations.
(2)
(0)
WO1 (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) SFC, that makes sense. I've worked at bde HQs for the past 4 years so Legal has been my go to for just about everything.
(0)
(0)
3
3
0
I, like WO1 (Join to see) , am not legal, so take this for what it is worth.
This sounds, to me, like there is a whole lot of blame to go around. No one, including you, did the right thing. I would recommend a FLIPL, but I believe the results will come back with you bearing a large portion of the responsibility. But I would still recommend it. One of the things a FLIPL is SUPPOSED to do (which it admittedly rarely does) is identify systemic issues which need correction. This is not the primary purpose, but it should still occur. In your case, correction is needed.
I said you deserve a fair share of the blame... Why? Because as soon as you found out that tools were missing you should have IMMEDIATELY taken inventory to find out which tools were missong and given a DETAILED report to your NCO. With a sworn statement regarding key control, if necessary. Once those tools were identified and located, you should have IMMEDIATELY created a 2062 for whoever had the tools to sign, thus re-establishing accountability. Even without that, when the tools were returned, you should have secured them, rather than entrusting that task to the Soldier who (effectively) stole them from you in the first place. Even if you didn't have time right then to properly put them away, at LEAST do a quick inventory and stash them in a locked wall locker or an open tray of a toolbox. And if you had done NONE of that, you STILL should have inventoried your toolbox before going home THAT DAY to identify and solve any discrepancies.
The fact that you have to "fast forward" anywhere in your tale of woe testifies to your own inaction.
Does it suck? Yes. Were you screwed over by your NCOs, your key control, and by your "battle buddy?" Also yes. Do your NCO and your key control (and probably your "battle buddy") bear some of the responsibility? A third yes! Does that absolve you of your own responsibility? Nope.
This sounds, to me, like there is a whole lot of blame to go around. No one, including you, did the right thing. I would recommend a FLIPL, but I believe the results will come back with you bearing a large portion of the responsibility. But I would still recommend it. One of the things a FLIPL is SUPPOSED to do (which it admittedly rarely does) is identify systemic issues which need correction. This is not the primary purpose, but it should still occur. In your case, correction is needed.
I said you deserve a fair share of the blame... Why? Because as soon as you found out that tools were missing you should have IMMEDIATELY taken inventory to find out which tools were missong and given a DETAILED report to your NCO. With a sworn statement regarding key control, if necessary. Once those tools were identified and located, you should have IMMEDIATELY created a 2062 for whoever had the tools to sign, thus re-establishing accountability. Even without that, when the tools were returned, you should have secured them, rather than entrusting that task to the Soldier who (effectively) stole them from you in the first place. Even if you didn't have time right then to properly put them away, at LEAST do a quick inventory and stash them in a locked wall locker or an open tray of a toolbox. And if you had done NONE of that, you STILL should have inventoried your toolbox before going home THAT DAY to identify and solve any discrepancies.
The fact that you have to "fast forward" anywhere in your tale of woe testifies to your own inaction.
Does it suck? Yes. Were you screwed over by your NCOs, your key control, and by your "battle buddy?" Also yes. Do your NCO and your key control (and probably your "battle buddy") bear some of the responsibility? A third yes! Does that absolve you of your own responsibility? Nope.
(3)
(0)
SFC Casey O'Mally
And remember, they can only take a paycheck. It sucks, but better to learn the lesson with a SPC paycheck than a SFC paycheck.
(0)
(0)
SGT(P) (Join to see)
You are correct. My inaction is what bit me in the rear. I just wish someone would have told me that’s what needed to be done and showed me, because I’ve never had anything like this happen before and so my lack of knowledge cost me as well. I understand where you’re coming from, and I definitely see my fault in this situation now. Thank you for responding me.
(1)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google