Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Chain of Command
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
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My initial response. If he took it, he probably is a POS. Still she (the CPT) took it too far.
I had one CPT try to curse at me. I stopped him in mid-sentence and said; "Captain, do not curse at me. I'm not your child." That was it and that was all it took.
I was never a POS, though. Not sure how I would react if a person tried to yell at me and was correct about me but rude about it.
I had one CPT try to curse at me. I stopped him in mid-sentence and said; "Captain, do not curse at me. I'm not your child." That was it and that was all it took.
I was never a POS, though. Not sure how I would react if a person tried to yell at me and was correct about me but rude about it.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
That would have been the last thing you said to me before your court-martial, Staff Sergeant. Grow some and take it like a man.
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SSG David Kaelin
And I'd have ended your career.
Be a man and treat people with dignity.
This Captain was in the wrong. I had him by the balls and he knew it. I'd have had you by the balls as well and you would have known it.
Officers are not Gods. Though many of you do seem to believe that you are.
The problem is that you never know who you are talking to and to whom that person might be related or to whom that person might be connected. This is not the old days when Enlisted personnel were uneducated and easy prey.
Be a man and treat people with dignity.
This Captain was in the wrong. I had him by the balls and he knew it. I'd have had you by the balls as well and you would have known it.
Officers are not Gods. Though many of you do seem to believe that you are.
The problem is that you never know who you are talking to and to whom that person might be related or to whom that person might be connected. This is not the old days when Enlisted personnel were uneducated and easy prey.
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SSG David Kaelin
Oh...and I've been out of the Army for over a decade. I've seen Officers from the other side. I know how the system works. I know how you guys cover for each other. That veil was lifted long ago.
There are some Great Officers out there. There are also many duds. I wonder which one are you. From that ignorant statement, I can surmise. You are probably the reason that many good people leave the Service.
There are some Great Officers out there. There are also many duds. I wonder which one are you. From that ignorant statement, I can surmise. You are probably the reason that many good people leave the Service.
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I know me as a person I would not have allowed this Captain to berate me in such a disrespectful manner especially if I had already obtained the rank of SFC. Obviously her CoC approved enough to give her good enough NCOER ratings to get her to this position. Many people suggest that this should go through the CoC but there are cases that the CoC covers the incident to avoid being publicly exposed or to protect that Captain. If this Captain was let’s say a Company Commander of mine I would definitely want this to go outside the CoC for the main fact this person possibly signs my NCOER’s, how convenient! I would want this to go on public record in order to avoid future endeavors with this individual. In a perfect world as Soldiers’ we should suck it up and move on but in the real world there are those individuals who hide behind the rank both on the NCO and Officer side of the house. These are the individuals that need to be taken behind the shed for wall to wall counseling. I will end this by saying I am concerned this SFC was unable to figure out how to file appropriate procedures against this Captain.
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Officers like this one eventually self destruct, but they do a lot of damage before they get run out of the service. Always enjoy reading some of the Navy Times articles about some of the goofballs who got rolled up who were actually given command at sea. Those jobs are few and far between, and I'm always puzzled that no one identified those people as being unfit long before they were actually given a ship and crew to lead.
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I'm pretty sure my wife would have whipped her loud fat mouth butt just for s & g and I would have had to go on the carpet for that most eventful episode. But I'm old school and never had to deal with an 0-3 that ignorant.
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What was the action, what was done, there are pieces of crap out there that get thru the cracks and are on the well fear system. There are soldiers that do not need too be in. So as we say in asymmetric operations look at all angles befor you JDam the target.
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The IG is not your friend. They aren't the commands friend either. If your punished unjustly or against regulations the IG is your route. First step is always chain of command. If this was an ass chewing and non punitive then you won't get much satisfaction from any outcome. Was the CPT wrong sure. Did it negatively impact your career? Document and take it one step higher.
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With All Due Respect, this CPT has no honor. Just because you have more authority doesn't mean you can use it to belittle someone with less rank than you. Officers are supposed to be the example of honor and dignity in the Military. Seems like this NCO has more about himself in all aspects of the military. The CPT should be brought up on slander charges through JAG if applicable. If the CHAIN OF COMMAND know about this, then they should be taking steps to ensure that this CPT gets reprimanded to the fullest extent. This not only looks bad on the CPT, but on all brass. The senior officers should take notice of this case especially to ensure that this type of thing never happens again. The military need its CO's and its NCO's. If they cannot respect each other, and set the example, then how are the lower ranks going to be taught how the military works. This is undeniably a "black eye" for the military and especially for all involved.
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I would like to know why is she still in the Army. The question is what caused her to go off like that but it doesn't matter, she lost her bearing and I wish I would have been there me and her would have some choice words
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Hmmm... we all agree that family is off limits, we all agree that the counseling time and place was inappropriate - the question, should you raise it up. Absolutely for good order and discipline if for no other reason.
I for one would love the army to return to the days where I started (Reagan era) - where we could let things fly a little more - thicker skins - I doubt that will happen, so in todays operating environment - this is one of the many issues that the COC must attend to. The IG has no role in it, but the Company chain, BN chain, and BDE chain will squash that crap like a bug. A nudge to an O5 from his trusty CSM will find that CPT on the first thing smoking.
I for one would love the army to return to the days where I started (Reagan era) - where we could let things fly a little more - thicker skins - I doubt that will happen, so in todays operating environment - this is one of the many issues that the COC must attend to. The IG has no role in it, but the Company chain, BN chain, and BDE chain will squash that crap like a bug. A nudge to an O5 from his trusty CSM will find that CPT on the first thing smoking.
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He probably doesn't give a shit. I never did.
Don't like me? Okay. Not here to make friends. I'm here to take care of my Soldiers, and execute orders. Your opinion of me, means as little as my opinion of you.
Don't like me? Okay. Not here to make friends. I'm here to take care of my Soldiers, and execute orders. Your opinion of me, means as little as my opinion of you.
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Take up the but maintain your professional conduct. The captain has shown herself to not only a poor leader but a bad person.
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This incident should always be brought up first thought the Chain of Command, And from that level definitely a course of action is going to take place. No Soldiers no matter what rank has the right to treat other Soldiers in a unprofessional way. That way we has Soldiers must follow and apply the Army values of respect, duty, loyalty, selfless service, integrity and personal courage in everything you do, according to the Army
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A lot of good responses here. I will add a point that I think many may be thinking but not saying. As a senior NCO my sphere of influence and "Army family" was exponentially wider and larger than 99% of Captains. Once my family was brought into it.....it was officially ON!! On the DL I would make it my life's work to utterly and completely destroy her. No place on the EARTH for you to hide once you have gone on attack toward my family. Plain and simple, there are official actions that need to be taken and then there is the "encouragement" of Karma.
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As a retired SNCO, here's my perspective:
1. The CPT needs to keep butt-chewings private, and not brag about it later. That part is definitely unprofessional. Praise is public; discipline is private.
2. Does the SNCO deserve to be chastised? Being an SNCO doesn't always exclude one from being a piece of crap.
There's always two sides to every story. The CPT may no something lower ranking Soldiers don't.
1. The CPT needs to keep butt-chewings private, and not brag about it later. That part is definitely unprofessional. Praise is public; discipline is private.
2. Does the SNCO deserve to be chastised? Being an SNCO doesn't always exclude one from being a piece of crap.
There's always two sides to every story. The CPT may no something lower ranking Soldiers don't.
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Just make sure you have all of your ducks in a line before you go to the commander.
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