Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Chain of Command
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
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first go thru coc, but dont let it drop, go to ig if nothing becomes of it with you coc, unless it involes coc go next higher level
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I would take this to the 1SG and CSM and explain the issue. Let Top and CSM talk to the respective commanders and determine what the next course of action would be.
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SFC should not have said a word to ANYONE and then tried his best to make the utmost of friends with that Captain and when the time was right he should have served up that cold dish of revenge and no one would have EVER suspected him. It's exactly what I would have done. It works. I've never been caught.
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FTX at night!
Just kidding.
Document and report. If witnessed by other get names, places, dates and times.
Just kidding.
Document and report. If witnessed by other get names, places, dates and times.
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What are the facts. I see a whole lot of "s'posin'" going on. One possibility. The SFC has been counseled before on controlling his dependents. Shop-lifting in the PX. now, one of the kids got drunk with his buddies and destroyed a couple of the greens on the Base golf course.The Captain has been on the downhill side of the Base Commander, the Division Commander, the Regimental Commander, and the Battalion Commander. The. SFC goes wishy-washy-whiny defensive. You better believe I'd bring his family into it. I'm an old man. I grew up in a Corps where many of our senior officers and NCOs were WWII vets. As one of my regimental commanders once told me, "I can remember when a Captain could not only call a subordinate a piece of shit who was about to hit the brig--but the only question anyone would ask is 'How soon can we get a chaser?'." But, I'm an old man......
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GySgt Ascencion Gomez, D.S.L.
as long as it's behind closed doors... SFC learn to live with it and take charge of his family too.
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LtCol Mac McCarty
GySgt Ascencion Gomez, D.S.L. - Absolutely, Gunny. And you and the First Sergeant have a right and responsibility to mention it to the Company Commander (I'm assuming the Captain was the Skipper) in the "Hey, Sir, let us take care of your NCO problems and we'll give you a company ready for the field" sort of way. I once forgot to ask First Sergeant Laws for his input on an Office Hours. His "Aye, aye Sir......But ya know Skipper, even the WORST Marine is right sometimes." got my attention a lot faster than the "write it down and fill out a form and go to the Inspector and cry a little" nonsense that appears to be the 2016 plan of the day. Semper Fi, Gunny. I'll bet we would have had some fun together.
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Is the SFC a POS? Is he a terrible NCO? Sometimes the truth hurts and it sound bad. But If said dude DOES suck at life, his 1SG should be the one destroying him. I don't think a captain would still standing if she said those things to me... Just saying.
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This sounds like my ex-wife, but she made Major a couple years ago... This is 1SG business in the opinion of this former Jr NCO.
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As a junior enlisted where that officer has no actual ability to affect me or my job assuming they weren't my chain of command I'd suggest ignoring it and understanding their are crazy people in all walks of life.
If that officer directly or indirectly affected my position duty or service
I give the chain of command a chance to deal with it
If I was a senior noncommissioned officer and an officer of any rank pull that
I would likely jump a few steps in the chain of command and go see a brigade or division CSM and commander team
Requesting both presents
Briefing them on the situation and then asking them to bring the offending officer in so that all four parties are in the same room and there would be no he said she said
Let that officer defend their actions publicly and in front of their boss
If that officer directly or indirectly affected my position duty or service
I give the chain of command a chance to deal with it
If I was a senior noncommissioned officer and an officer of any rank pull that
I would likely jump a few steps in the chain of command and go see a brigade or division CSM and commander team
Requesting both presents
Briefing them on the situation and then asking them to bring the offending officer in so that all four parties are in the same room and there would be no he said she said
Let that officer defend their actions publicly and in front of their boss
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From your comments, it appears that the SFC conducted himself professionally and then reported it up the chain of command. Why would you be getting involved, beyond giving a statement of your observations if asked to do so?
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Begin by routing a complaint through the NCO chain of concern (BN CSM) and get the CSM in on this. If the abuse can be proven then the Officer is guilty of conduct unbecoming.
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I see a lot of good advice from officers and NCOs in the comments.
If there is a need to address a problem NCO, I suggest they get some training from their MRT. The IDEAL model would apply here. Also, SMART applies to goal setting, but it also applies to criticism.
Having said that, if this CPT thinks they don't need NCOs, or consistently gets into NCO business, their career will likely be capped at MAJ (we tend to promote incompetence, sadly).
If there is a need to address a problem NCO, I suggest they get some training from their MRT. The IDEAL model would apply here. Also, SMART applies to goal setting, but it also applies to criticism.
Having said that, if this CPT thinks they don't need NCOs, or consistently gets into NCO business, their career will likely be capped at MAJ (we tend to promote incompetence, sadly).
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In this situation would document what happened then I would have a conversation with the first shirt and my supervisor about the situation and send it up the chain. If that did not work then I would swing over to the IG office.
1. Even if the Senior NCO was in the wrong she handled it wrong. There is never a good reason to bring up anyone's family.
2. If it was in public in front of junior service member it undermines the Senior NCOs authority on top of make her ineffective as a leader acting in such an unprofessional manner.
3. Her going around bragging to service member about how she chewed someone out is unprofessional and completely immature.
I think the commander will have a field day with her.
1. Even if the Senior NCO was in the wrong she handled it wrong. There is never a good reason to bring up anyone's family.
2. If it was in public in front of junior service member it undermines the Senior NCOs authority on top of make her ineffective as a leader acting in such an unprofessional manner.
3. Her going around bragging to service member about how she chewed someone out is unprofessional and completely immature.
I think the commander will have a field day with her.
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You shouldn't treat this CPT as a sniper nest and simply take it out and be done with it. I see a possibility for something much more interesting. While the story leaves out any sign of motive for the Captains behavior, This is were the real story is hidden and should be found. Romance gone wrong, one of them caught in a compromising situation, or is there a third persons involvement? This act is a indicator of a failing and subpar unit. For the CPT to think that they can talk with enlisted personal in this manner and convey this information shows a complete break down of the unit chain of command, as there is no way any respect can be earned. I believe that this should be taken to the 1SG or CSM first. They will know the best way to deliver the situation to the BN Cmdr. It is case study such as this, that make great training opportunities and I hope that what ever the resolution is, that not only is issue handled between the two individuals, but with the environment that allowed this to happen within the unit.
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SSG Madden, I'm currently serving as a detailed IG and the comments below are spot on. It needs to be addressed through the CoC first. By CoC I mean the CPT's supervisor who I'm assuming is a BN-level commander. The BN-level commander, he or she may be, should have an open door policy where the SFC can go in and address his grievance. The SFC can go to the IG but again the IG will refer it to the command and since it's a CPT involved it will be the BN CDR. The IG can facilitate a meeting with the BN CDR on the Soldier's behalf. Hope this helps.
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Suspended Profile
Chain of Command 1st, IG if that fails.
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