Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Chain of Command
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
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What does a three year in the Army CPT know. Exactly!! Call this retired MSG and I'll tell you what you don't know!!
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I'd knock her teeth out. Say what you will about me, but my family will get you hurt. She wants to be equal; make her equal.
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I believe that all problems, regardless of rank, should be handled at the lowest level possible from the start. Go through the COC to start with and then if there is no resolution to the problem, then you can consider talking with JAG or with IG. Superiors both Officer and NCO alike tend to get upset when their subordinates go over their head without following their proper COC. Just my opinion on the matter.
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It's been awhile since I wore the olive drab, but I've seen this before. SGT tells CSM, who goes to the section officer (a MAJ) who calls the CPT in the office and proceeds to chew butt behind closed doors about his shortcomings. CSM makes sure the SGT doesn't have to drive CPT around anymore. CSM turns to the PV2 (me) and makes me the CPT's new driver. He pulls the same crap with me so I go to the CSM and the process repeats itself. MAJ makes life difficult for CPT. Not sure what he did, but within a month the CPT resigned his commission. Chain of command, THEN IG.
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Ok.. Probably not professional of him to do that but..... Let's be honest this nco probably wasn't the hard dick platoon Sgt you'd want leading your son/daughter spouse into battle. There's more to this. Any nco I'd respect would fire back with borderline shit that'd be disrespectful yet true. Fuck this nco and Cpt move on
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Well... If this is bothering you enough to post this here and are seriously acting on advice given... Then here's my two cents. Talk to that senior about it. Express your concerns about how it affects you and the other soldiers. If the senior NCO seems unwilling to take any action then express to that senior NCO that you wish to go to the CSM and talk about it. Once you've gone to your CSM and hashed out with him... That's it ! you need not do anymore. If it continues... convince another NCO or soldier that's privy to this to go to the CSM. The point I'm trying to make here is ... It's an NCO/officer issue and you should,d take it up to the most senior NCO (CSM ) so he can hash it out with the most senior officer in that unit (usually a LTC). Chain of command.... Use it.
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Chain of command. I would imagine that higher is likely aware of said CPT's behavior already and may be documenting it. I have never seen an IG complaint end well ever. The ones I saw ended with strict SOP's (i.e. stupid games) and an angry head shed.
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I would have stood up and told that POG officer to fucking check herself. I don't give a damn. The minute she started demeaning that NCO by calling him shit, all gloves are off at that point. I've delt with poor leadership as a senior NCO for two decades and if I'm right about my position than that officer better come prepared. I'm so glad I'm out. The military has just gone to shit since I retired. Those that haven't done the time to see the change since the late 90s will never know what the Army was like then compared to now. Yes war changed things but we produced soldiers to rapidly during that time and quality definitely suffered on enlisted and commissioned sides.
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I agree with the many comments that this was way out of line behavior. I have to wonder what the MOS of the CPT was, only because there are some MOS's where people can enter as a Captain despite not having previous military experience. If so, than her behavior could also point to her lack of training, if not lack of appropriate mentorship as someone new to the rank.
I have encountered / been aware of bad behavior from Officers and NCO's. So none are immune. I don't think its always the solution to apply a nuclear solution when other options could be available to get them on the right track. If they fail to change their ways, or continue said behavior, than yes, maybe they are not suited to be in the military. Everyone can have a bad day, no one is immune. Now a pattern, despite attempted correction, well that is something else.
Lastly, I would have to agree, go up the chain first. I don't know one 1SG or Commander who would appreciate being blindsided by an IG complaint and not having had the chance to address it themselves.
I have encountered / been aware of bad behavior from Officers and NCO's. So none are immune. I don't think its always the solution to apply a nuclear solution when other options could be available to get them on the right track. If they fail to change their ways, or continue said behavior, than yes, maybe they are not suited to be in the military. Everyone can have a bad day, no one is immune. Now a pattern, despite attempted correction, well that is something else.
Lastly, I would have to agree, go up the chain first. I don't know one 1SG or Commander who would appreciate being blindsided by an IG complaint and not having had the chance to address it themselves.
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I'm not exactly sure about the regulations. I know a guy who was being investigated for disrespecting an officer.
However there is a line they can cross and once they do they are no longer protected by the UCMJ and the NCO is protected because of "conduct unbecoming" or something like that.
Like I said though. I don't know if asschewings like that cross the line or not.
However there is a line they can cross and once they do they are no longer protected by the UCMJ and the NCO is protected because of "conduct unbecoming" or something like that.
Like I said though. I don't know if asschewings like that cross the line or not.
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A couple of items here...
#1 Are there any negative counsels on this NCO?...if so, what corrective actions have been completed and has follow on counsel been accomplished to let this NCO know if he or she has met expectations?
#2 Is this CPT in the CoC...perhaps the CO? First stop should be immediate NCO support channel...Soldier's 1SG. Especially if the ass chewing was unfounded. If nothing is done about it, then straight to the CSM and keep climbing to the IG.
Been my experience over a lot of years that enlisted always get the short end...officers tend to get a hand slap and proceed along their career path.
#1 Are there any negative counsels on this NCO?...if so, what corrective actions have been completed and has follow on counsel been accomplished to let this NCO know if he or she has met expectations?
#2 Is this CPT in the CoC...perhaps the CO? First stop should be immediate NCO support channel...Soldier's 1SG. Especially if the ass chewing was unfounded. If nothing is done about it, then straight to the CSM and keep climbing to the IG.
Been my experience over a lot of years that enlisted always get the short end...officers tend to get a hand slap and proceed along their career path.
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I've clearly seen instance where this happened in private but never in public. I think this is just one other case of how the overall quality of the US military has degraded over the years. The entitled millennials and yes their "entitled officers". To hold one accountable violated some BS social actions code. Frankly I don't believe that chain of command these days would do anything about this as all they would want to do is cover themselves. I also cannot believe that the Chain of Command already doesn't know about this especially since this idiot captain was bragging about her dressing down a SFC. This isn't the military I served in as this behavior would NEVER be tolerated. The behavior of this idiot captain is not surprising as well given the millennial generation these days. I believe the only recourse for this SFC is going to the IG. I believe the Chain will prove to be useless.
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This type of situation I've seen too many times I'm sure some old dogs on here know exactly what I'm talking about when I say WTF happened to "NCO" business? If a ass chewing was warranted you got it chewed by Top then you got permission from Top to get it chewed by your CO.
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Open door policies are there to address these types of issues. If that was me, I'd be going straight to the Battalion CoC. If they didnt resolve it, I'd be requesting to take it to the Brigade CoC. Regardless, theres attempting to correct an issue and then there is unprofessional. This crossed that line
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Sound like a very insecure captain who has no respect for herself or others. Thinks it makes her look like she is in charge and feels tough. Such an officer, I hope is found out by her superiors and is dealt with accordingly. There is not room in the military for people like this. I have seen NCOs act like this when the get promoted and do not have the respect of those they lead because they have done nothing to earn it. Had a captain that was former enlisted. He stated that he was better than enlisted because he went to college and got his commission. And he was better than other officers because he was enlisted and knew how to get away with things. He was a poor leader. Just like this officer is. It makes you wonder how they hide their true self for so long.
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I'm a BN Commander. If one of my CO's did that, Said CPT's ass is about to get handed to her. So the answer is Chain of Command.
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