Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
This officer has no Bussiness doing this in front of pepole. Time for IG because officers protect one another. The IG will investigate it will go in her record. May stop her from making Major. Career will be slowed at least.
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I'm wondering if it would also be appropriate to retain Area Defense Counsel, just in case, as this is pursued up the Chain of Command, just to make sure that the SFC is in compliance with UCMJ, Army and DoD regulations and directives as well?
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The first question any IG is going to ask, is did you use your Chain of Command to report the incident and what was the outcome? I absolutely support what COL Lenertz recommends. I will state for the record though that even though you perceive wrong doing and inappropriate behavior, the community is only seeing a portion of the situation - you may not see the outcome you expect.
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This is why women don't belong in the military. If a male Capt did this in an Infantry unit the SFC wouldn't have just stood there.....
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It's all on that SFC now. I know what my collar can afford, and would not have maintained bearing by choice at mention of family. My guess is this SFC know the CPT is a peice of shit and forgot about about it as soon as it was over.
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Don't you wish you could say you piece of shit bag of ass you no more deserve a commission than the man in the moon.
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Pretty pathetic, if I was that NCO in question at the moment I would have responded by saying, "No wonder I'm what you stated I have such great Leadership Examples being shown to me at the moment "!!!
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The Captain could have justified anything she had to say when tearing into the SFC. Unfortunately for her, making the situation personal by talking at all about him s family became, conduct unbecoming and this is the time to show her the door.
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Here we go again... Another case of toxic leadership. I don't know what that NCO could have done to deserve such treatment and frankly I don't care. Leadership is about the people you lead not you. Never mind the fact that she took matters into her own hands and left the 1SGT out of it. It is this nonsense right here that raises attrition rates and lowers re-enlistment rates. Ask yourself this question: how did she get that way? Has this behavior been fostered in some way? If so, then use of the CoC will be in vein. Use it anyway to cover your bases. Just know that you are probably heading into a dark and lonely forest.
Yours truly,
SGT Cynicism
Yours truly,
SGT Cynicism
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A LT during a field op walked up to a LCpl and all he got out was "Your wife". After the junior officer woke up from being knocked out by the Marine they were brought before the CO. The LT wanted to charge the LCpl with assault. The CO asked the Marine why did he knock out the LT. Response was "I did not like the tone he had when he said My wife and I didn't give him a chance to say anything else about my wife." Captain looked over to the LT and responded "Looks like you learned your lesson about talking about another Marines' family, don't ever do that again"
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Handle it old infantry style, remove your blouse and step into the woodline. But seriously I would request a meeting with the Cpt. The BC and the SGM and lay it all out on the table. If that didn't work the go to the IG.
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Sorry for posting with a general comment about Chain of Command earlier without reading the whole topic. Having read the post this is a no-brainer. CPT needs some face time with a senior Field Grade to remind her that this is totally unsat behavior on so many levels. I've known many Sgts Maj and other senior SNCOs that could tactfully square her away also, without being blatantly disrespectful and likely with less than 50 words. I think she needs a taste of her own meds from a senior and the senior NCO network is the way to initiate that plan. SFC briefs 1st Sgt - 1st Sgt and Sgt Maj have a chat - the Sgt Maj briefs the CO - the CPT gets what's coming to her. Even if she is close to accurate you don't dress down in public. If she is correct and SFC works for her then why isn't she doing her job through counseling to develop him? It's above my pay grade but if she has a pattern of this then her Reporting Senior needs to be counselling and evaluating her fitness to lead. Family is off limits without question and screams unprofessionalism.
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The Chain of Command is only as strong as you make it and it should be exercised freely unless it has broken. If someone in the chain is the problem then partner with the next step in the chain or a knowledgeable leader to develop an action plan; but only when you are certain you have done everything you could at your level and the senior has been afforded an opportunity to resolve the issue. It's often viewed as more expedient to dial a 800 number but that often causes more problems for all concerned. As a rule problems should be resolved at the lowest level and when you do this you strengthen the Chain. Besides resolving the issue you instill confidence in the members that leaders care, and that they are competent and willing to resolve problems or concerns in a timely and professional manner. Although you may get an answer faster by going straight to the top you might not like the consequences once the Chain of Command becomes aware that you did not give them a chance to handle the issue. Put yourself in their place and think how you would feel if someone demonstrated by their actions that they thought so little of you that they chose not to allow you to do your job. At that point you can stand by for heavy rolls because you are about to be passing through a storm....and usually of greater proportion than the original issue.
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IG and E O Complain and Id Personally go to his BN or BDE Commander and tell them everything.....Thats Why when in on the Road I carry a Recorder for Extra Extra Back up
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If it was incorrect and done in front of others, report it. To "rip someone a new one" is to be done away from everyone else. If the CPT then went around bragging about it, turn them in. I have had my share of disagreements with senior NCO's and officers, but if I needed to get "Ripped a new one" I don't ever recall it being done so others could hear it. When I needed to speak with a junior soldier or airman, I never "busted them out" in front of others, that is totally uncalled for.
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If a Capt. has the guts to say what she said, then she has the confidence her chain will let her get away with this conduct unbecoming. I would make an IG complaint so this doesn't get buried in the chain of command. I mean really, saying what she said and go around telling people what she did, that takes guts....
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Not enough information. If a senior NCO did this to a junior NCO or junior Soldier no one would bat and eye lash. Depends on the details of the exchange. If it needs to be handled by other there are two good options: Chain of command/open door policy, or IG. Then again someone could always file a hurt feelings report...
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Did you not just said SHE? There is your answer. Now turn that situation around and you will understand. Welcome to the new Army.
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I would address the NCO chain of command. Either the 1sg or CSM will address the commander and the commander will deal
With the situation. That is the only recourse.
With the situation. That is the only recourse.
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CPT sounds like a class act. A few years ago, they could have taken it outside. Instead of hiding behind rank like a little bitch
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