Posted on Sep 4, 2019
PV2 Automated Logistical Specialist
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I recently went through basic training and to be honest it wasn't that hard. It was exhausting but i feel like we could have pushed harder, we could aimed for higher. There were few people who already quit on pick up day and our battery was famous for smoking and training but i think we still could have done better. I feel before anything we are infantry so why not give the same 14 weeks training?
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SFC Retention Operations Nco
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To answer your primary question, it would be prohibitively expensive for the Army. If all the basic training's are lengthened by 2 months, there would be less basic training Cycles per year. That means the army would have to recruit less people per year, or build more basic training facilities and allocate more drill sergeants away from combat units.
The Marines are capable of training everyone as Infantry because they are significantly smaller. The Army recruits almost half the size of the Marine Corps every year.

As for the second part of your post, if you thought it was easy, continue pushing on. I thought basic was easy and I went to airborne school. I thought airborne school was hard so I went to RIP and Ranger School. They were hard, but I passed. Every time I passed something I found something harder to do. The Army is a very scalable place in terms of effort level. You can always find someplace where it's easier and someplace where it's harder. There are units where a 180 APFT is perfectly acceptable, and there are units where a 350 is the normal squad average. It's up to you to accept the challenge. Are you the kind of person who runs at the front of the slow group so you feel strong, or the kind of person who runs at the back of the fastest group so you can get stronger?
You're not infantry first, don't ever kid yourself. I started out in the 75th, and earned my ranger tab, and served many infantry roles in training and deployment. I was eligible to switch my MOS to 11B by having my tab. At no point would I say that I am basically infantry, or infantry first. What you think is infantry, is just basic soldier skills. Infantry isn't a skill set, if it was, those chubby airsoft guys would be infantry. It's an entire culture and society.
If you like working with the infantry, and would like to do infantry things while keeping your MOS, I suggest you volunteer for RASP. It's a good challenge and you'll get to do fun things. If you decide the infantry life is for you, you can switch your MOS after you get your tab.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
LCDR Joshua Gillespie
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I'm neither Army, nor Infantry SFC (Join to see) , but yours might be the best dang response I've read on this threat yet...thank you. You are, of course, absolutely correct in all respects. If it isn't too presumptuous for me to say so however, speaking as a Sailor, and one who was briefly exposed to the Army way of doing things...I sincerely believe despite the cost and impact it would have; "hardening up" other pipelines, to include those of sister services, would be a move in the right direction. I was fortunate enough to go through MTT training at Ft. Riley in the winter of 2007, hosted by the 1st Infantry Division. While I am very aware that those two months in no way compare to even a fraction of the training received by the Infantry, it was, as expected, an "eye opening" experience. I learned things there (and subsequently, while operational with an ETT) that would've been invaluable during my first and second tours with the Fleet, and to which I had virtually zero exposure to prior. During that time, our "Force Protection" and (to a lesser degree) VBSS teams were largely training ad hoc; and, without disrespecting our process, or those executing it...largely making it up as we went along-with noticeable shortcomings. I agree 100% with the adage, "choose your rate...choose your fate"; if someone wants to do what the Infantry does, join the Infantry. Neither should we "water down" what it means to be part of that culture, or waste time and resources trying to narrow the gap with other MOSs/services. Still, and speaking only from my experiences...I respectfully think the Armed Forces as a whole, could do with an injection of the core competencies that your team is looking for when creating warfighters.
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WO1 Intel Nco
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I can agree with you with a couple of additional thoughts on it.

I notice discipline is greater lacking the last 3-4 years with new soldiers coming in.
- That could be from Basic not being long enough, lack of discipline instilled in basic, etc.

However, our DS's have their hands tied with being "correct, nice, etc" i have told people stories from my basic who went through even 1-2 years later and they were shocked that we did "naked shower drills" got smoked for hours, called names etc. Cause even their (as they described) were "tough" but wasn't per say mean and scary tough.

It also depends on who the DS's are and their background. My platoons two DS's were both infantry, and even told us "we don't care about drill and ceremony, we are going to teach you how to clear a room and proper troop movement."
- I love that we had that extra time learning as you say the primary role of the Soldiers.

I believe to "fix" the lack of soldiering skills and discipline (which is my biggest issue) we need need to first and foremost give our DS's their power back, and maybe also extend basic 1-2 weeks.

Disclaimer: Soldier tasks and skills are at the individual and unit level when new soldiers get to their units. They "should" be practicing and refreshing on those things, however I have seen that that isn't the case usually.
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PV2 Automated Logistical Specialist
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SGT Dave Tracy i am a 92A sgt, also known as supply guy but first i am a soldier and i think that the training should be same for everyone. I am a lethal killing machine first and then comes my supply job. Is infantry for everyone? No, its not but then to be part of something bigger than you better than you, you must be willing to go through things you are not at all comfortable with.
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SGT Dave Tracy
SGT Dave Tracy
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PV2 (Join to see) - Easy killer.

As with any job, there are certain task-specific duties that are carried out by the Infantry, that other MOSs need not waste time/energy/money doing a deep-dive into combat training; therefore a basic level of combat training for everyone is a solid foundation for soldiering skills which may--though not often--be called upon. That said, combat training could be enhanced for all MOSs, I agree, but at initial entry its not needed for everyone to do all that Infantry OSUT does.
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PV2 Automated Logistical Specialist
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SFC Michael D. I, on my own want to become a drill sergeant one day to train new trainee or guide soldiers but something in me tells me that in coming days trainees will get more and more privileges and one day tired of everyone Army has to go back to good old days. I have always looked upto drill sergeants for a role model in army and only a drill sergeant knows what he or she goes through to get that campaign hat and how proud a drill sergeant feels when their platoon graduates from basic.
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SFC Michael D.
SFC Michael D.
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PV2 (Join to see) - Just remember that DS Badge earns promotion points. Just saying.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
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I'd be for it for several reasons, but agree with WO1 (Join to see) -the first step would be rolling back years of "tying" DS's "hands behind their backs" in the interest of being more "enlightened". Personally, I think it would help the morale, effectiveness, and overall efficiency of al the services if we started with a uniform basic training syllabus. Does a Sailor headed for Deck Division need to be able to accurately operate an M4 while using night vision? It couldn't hurt. Does a future Air Force pilot need to be able to do the "slide for life"? Might make a big difference if said officer ever found themselves down behind enemy lines. It would likely help us build bonds of cross-cooperation if from E-1 to flag rank, everyone had spent at least some time doing the same things...and would logically instill a greater sense of the warrior ethic into each of us. The challenges are of course real; it would take more time, more money, and since not everyone is cut out for everything...would probably impact manning requirements. Ultimately, I think we're actually going to see moves in this direction-the Military can be slow to react to things, but it seems to be universally recognized that we need to build a more cohesive set of skills if we're to maintain our presence.
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SFC Michael D.
SFC Michael D.
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All very good points. Totally agree.
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WO1 Intel Nco
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That is an interesting concept/idea! I wouldn't have thought of that at all. I could see the benefits for sure, but then the logistical standpoint is a nightmare.
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PV2 Automated Logistical Specialist
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I wanted that. DS should be given their Authority back. My drill sergeants was from infantry and they at times we could tell that they were holdkmg back because of rules. I wanted them to go 100% but when I looked around that my battles were giving up for no reason that made me upset. US army is the best of the best and it should go back to good old days where DS could put hands on trainees.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
LCDR Joshua Gillespie
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WO1 (Join to see) -I think the resources and manning issues alone would limit any such changes greatly. I also think we need to be clear on the fact that there's a difference between increasing the discipline and skill sets of the whole...and trying to make "everyone Infantry"...which is neither correct, nor possible.
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Should infantry training be used for basic training?
Cpl Bernard Bates
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You should have joined the Marine Corp. Semper Fi.
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WO1 Intel Nco
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Of course leave it to the Marine to say that haha.
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PV2 Automated Logistical Specialist
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Sorry, I'm happy in army and i am proud of who I am and wearing that US ARMY tape on my chest. All the forces in United States are elite in some way but for me army was the best. I dont know about others but I can guarantee that I have all the military bearings DS taught me and they will be eith me till my ladt breath.
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Cpl Bernard Bates
Cpl Bernard Bates
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one reason Army Basic became easier is because you have male and Female recruits in the same Plt. in Basic training women aren't as strong as men for the most part so the Army lowered their standards so Female recruits could pass the PT test. In the Marine corp the standards weren't lowered for women.. A Training Bn. has three Plts. Two Plts were male one Plt was Female. Even though they were taking the same recruit training The females had female DI,s They were kept away from the Male Plts. They graduated at the same time. Their PT standards were lower than the males. The marine did an experiment where a few females took Infantry training with the males using the same standards as the men, only one female completed the course the other females dropped out for physical reasons. Semper Fi.
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MSG Gary Eckert
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Edited >1 y ago
The Marines already do this; however, they have a different mission from the Army and are much smaller. If you wanted to be Infantry first in the Army then you should have enlisted for the Infantry. Truth is you are Automated Hand Receipt first (I am guessing you spend at least 90 percent of your duty day performing these tasks) and Infantry if the situation requires. For that reason basic is intended to give you an introduction to some basic soldiering skills which you permanent party Command can build upon through field exercises and other training events. Additionally, there are resourcing issues. OSUT works for the infantry because they do not have an AIT. If we extended basic training, not only would we lose every non-Infantry Soldier in the Army for the additional time, we would have to double the number of Drill Sergeants since your Drill Sergeant would not be available to take the next group arriving behind you and we would need to increase both barracks space and training resources for what would amount to a secondary MOS.
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Capt Daniel Goodman
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Not to make light of what you'd said, and I do understand, certainly, why you said it...I just know I'd found both Army ROTC and USAF OTS rough enough, God knows...then again, I suppose that was me, obv, but then again, what do I know, ya know? God knows, that I got done with both was clearly a major gift from God, I guess, in retrospect, being completely honest about it...and God knows, I worked hard enough just trying to get both of those done...after the ROTC, I had to go through USAF OTS twice just to be allowed to finish...I finally passed my 2-mi run in ROTC by a few seconds on the parade-ground track at Ft. Hamilton in Brooklyn (I honestly thought the faculty were gonna faint, one actually ran with me, an APMS, an O-4, he honestly couldn't believe it, that was a REALLY good day, God's truth)...then I sprained an ankle, my run time went back up, and they dropped me...being a glutton for punishment, and the ultimate masochist, I suppose, I did the USAF OTS thing, and passed their 1-1/2-mi run by literally one second, being paced all the way by one of my roommates from the first class I'd been in, before, just I got recycled (one guy had been an NCAA track star, the only time I ever saw one up close...he did the mile and a half in 6 mins, I kid thee all not, hopping like some sort of weird gazelle or something, totally blew my mind, honest)...then, I nearly broke my neck getting to the top of the dreaded tower climb on the Lackland obstacle course, aside from all the rappelling, orienteering, and obstacle-course stuff I'd done before with my ROTC unit (which no longer exists now) up at West Point, we trained there quite a lot...so, honest, if you found your Army basic easy, more power to you, God knows, that's all I can say, God's truth, guy...the one thing that totally stunk when I was at Lackland for the USAF OTS was that we got to do only the obstacle course, not the firing range (back then, we were supposed to have been allowed to practice with .38 pistols, we'd been told, though I had done some M-16 stuff with the ROTC unit before, at Ft. Dix before that, thank God, and also some more M-16 stuff up at West Point), for what I'd found a genuinely weirdly amusing reason at the time, though we were all obv grumbling about it...the ammo was apparently too expensive to waste, if you can believe it...and yeah, that's a true story, swear to God, guys....
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Capt Daniel Goodman
Capt Daniel Goodman
>1 y
https://news.usni.org/2018/06/13/navy-implements-warrant-officer-1-rank-for-cyber-specialists

Similarly, I'm not saying you want this, I realize you might not necessarily want to go intersvc, I get that, however, if you have any cyber interests, this is relatively new, I don't know what minimum training is needed, I just figured to explain it exists, once again, that's all, honest....
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Capt Daniel Goodman
Capt Daniel Goodman
>1 y
And which MOS were you speaking of that you'd wanted? You'd mentioned that aspect, you just hadn't said which one, specifically, I'd just been curious, if you'd care to say, no rush, as I'd said, whenever you'd want, of course, OK?
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Capt Daniel Goodman
Capt Daniel Goodman
>1 y
If I can suggest other stuff for you, try to give me more, hobbies, interests, reading tastes, sports esp martial arts if any...give me more, so I can gauge your mind somewhat, I'll try to suggest more you can look at, OK?
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Capt Daniel Goodman
Capt Daniel Goodman
>1 y
I'd seen you'd said you'd wanted drill sergeant...was that the MOS you'd been referring to that you'd wanted? Would anything else interest you, possibly, as well? Not just Army, other svcs as well, possibly?
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CPL Sheila Lewis
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That's not a bad idea.
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SPC David C.
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Because being infantry isn't just a 14 week course and you're done with it. It's a lifestyle for however long your contract is. You live with misery 24/7/365, not just 14 weeks. Arty (you mentioned battery so I'm just guessing here) is usually nowhere near direct fighting so they never develop the field craft skills needed, they don't need to. Arty doesn't hump anything anywhere, the infantry...at least light infantry...that's all they do. Yeah, other MOS's get taught how to shoot a rifle and the very basics of infantry skill sets, but make no mistake about it, you're not infantry or even "basically infantry". You're a basic soldier.
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SPC David C.
SPC David C.
>1 y
Disregard my arty comment, I saw in a previous post you were supply. Dude, if you want to be infantry, then be infantry. Don't sign up for one MOS and then complain you're not another.
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SPC Kendall Metcalf
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I guess I can finally say the “ Back in my Day”. I agree that BCT/ AIT needs to bring back attention to detail and discipline. The DS should be the ones to strike fear in to these new recruits. By the numbers and smoked until it’s done right. Get rid of the political correctness, cell phones, Pvt’s have feelings, stress cards, individualism. Bring back polished boots, wood line counseling, forced hydration, lines for the pay phone. Line units should toe the line as well. Limit the death by power points, let NCO’s be NCO’s. Keep the military bearing and instill morals up and down the ranks. If there’s not a compliance, hit em were it counts. In their pay check! But it all starts at BCT.
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