Posted on Sep 4, 2016
Should Military (Active Duty, Reservist & Guard) be allowed to "sit", in support of personal beliefs, during the National Anthem?
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/navy-sailor-sits-national-anthem/index.html
I know many even wondered why I asked this question. I knew it was going to be a matter of time. I hope justice is served to this Sailor.
Here is another protest during the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. By a State Senator, no less.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/missouri-state-senator-sits-during-pledge-allegiance.html
I know many even wondered why I asked this question. I knew it was going to be a matter of time. I hope justice is served to this Sailor.
Here is another protest during the reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance. By a State Senator, no less.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/16/missouri-state-senator-sits-during-pledge-allegiance.html
Edited 9 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 148
Ummm, NO. You signed up and took an oath. You wear the uniform, and are subject to certain expected patterns of behavior, and the UCMJ, and all that jazz.
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I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Pretty much says it all right there ... Hell NO!
Pretty much says it all right there ... Hell NO!
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I'm going to focus on these key words: "should they be allowed?"
Should they be allowed? Yes. As servicemembers, I believe we should be the first in line to enjoy all the freedoms the Constitution offers.
Does that make it right? Absolutely not.
Should they be allowed? Yes. As servicemembers, I believe we should be the first in line to enjoy all the freedoms the Constitution offers.
Does that make it right? Absolutely not.
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SSG (Join to see)
SGT Higginbotham, first, allow me to say that I am impressed at the intestinal fortitude that you're choosing to show by taking a stance that may seem contrary to some at first glance. I see what you're trying to say with your point regarding service members being the first to receive that which they put their lives on the line for. There are many times I feel the same way.
The unfortunate reality of our military is that those that choose to serve will have to live with a curtailment of their Constitutional rights in order to guarantee the rights of others. What I mean by this is that, as a civilian, your freedom of speech (short of yelling fire in a theater) is nearly sacrosanct. Telling your CO / NCO support channel what you really think of the latest good idea fairy to come down the pipes is probably going to fly like a lead balloon.
You can probably also see the argument against a group of junior enlisted gathering outside the Division HQ to picket for a 'livable wage', even if it is their right to peacefully assemble. While most of us don't really like doing a health & welfare on our joes, we've all seen the reasoning behind doing it as well (4th Amendment proponents are usually up in arms about this one).
The list goes on and on brother. Like I said, there's been many a time where I would simply shake my head and mutter under my breath about the rights a service member has to give up, but there are other times that I can see the wisdom in the decision. Food for thought.
The unfortunate reality of our military is that those that choose to serve will have to live with a curtailment of their Constitutional rights in order to guarantee the rights of others. What I mean by this is that, as a civilian, your freedom of speech (short of yelling fire in a theater) is nearly sacrosanct. Telling your CO / NCO support channel what you really think of the latest good idea fairy to come down the pipes is probably going to fly like a lead balloon.
You can probably also see the argument against a group of junior enlisted gathering outside the Division HQ to picket for a 'livable wage', even if it is their right to peacefully assemble. While most of us don't really like doing a health & welfare on our joes, we've all seen the reasoning behind doing it as well (4th Amendment proponents are usually up in arms about this one).
The list goes on and on brother. Like I said, there's been many a time where I would simply shake my head and mutter under my breath about the rights a service member has to give up, but there are other times that I can see the wisdom in the decision. Food for thought.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) - You're right, it is unfortunate. It's an unfortunate reality that I've lived with ever since the day I first signed up. I don't like it, not one little bit, but it's a sacrifice that I've been willing to make *so far.* I can accept the reasoning behind it, to a point. Sometimes it gets downright stupid, though. Just my $0.02.
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NO, first off one volunteered to be in the Military, therefore you are obligated to its values. Don’t like them, then ETS and get out! Courtesies to the national flag and the national anthem of the United States, are not an option, by regulation, it is a requirement. (AR AR 600–25 Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy)
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Not only no, but fuck no. You're required to render honors to doing Colors and to the American Flag. This is not up for debate. If you think this country is racist, or evil, you should be serving.. 100% no. In fact, anyone who does such should be dishonorably discharged (in my opinion). You're supposed to be a patriot above all else. If you have a problem with this country, feel free to go AWOL and leave.
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SSG (Join to see)
Part of being a patriot is also acknowledging your country's flaws and working to correct them, not just "going full 'Murika" just because someone is in the military. And why is everybody's quick-fix "if you have a problem with America, you can always leave?" I was born and raised here, and make no mistake; I love this country but we also have a *LOT* of things that need fixing.
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SGT Eliyahu Rooff
We heard a lot of "Love it or leave it" in response to protests during the Vietnam war. It's the bumper sticker of a nationalist; not a patriot, much like the "My country, right or wrong" abbreviation of a much longer quote. The full quotation says something quite different: "The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, 'My country, right or wrong.' In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." (Senator CARL SCHURZ, remarks in the Senate, February 29, 1872, The Congressional Globe, vol. 45, p. 1287.) This means that if we see something in our country that needs to be changed or fixed, the patriotic duty of an American is to speak out, to protest and to argue until the wrong is corrected; not to sit quietly in hopes that someday it'll fix itself. If the only acceptable response to seeing injustices and wrongs is to either ignore them or leave, our nation has failed as a free state.
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The moment you signed your DD4 and raised your right hand, personal beliefs take a back seat to regulation and the UCMJ. Standing and saluting during the National Anthem or other rendering of honors is a condition of employment. If you don't want to do it, find other employment.
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Regulations state that you will stand at attention and face the colors when in civilian attire or stand at attention and salute the colors when in uniform. The thesis is that you are representative of the branch of service you are enlisted or commisioned in while on duty, you are on duty 24/7. If you want to grovel on your knees like an unwashed sand crab I suggest you wait till you discharge and are no longer an embarrasment to your chain of command. Nothing but love tho...
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You swore an oath to your country, you are a defender and you stand united. Either you stand by the traditions of military service or get the hell out.
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