Should Military Implement 'Voluntary' Separation? During this time of accelerated drawdown (down-sizing, right-sizing, etc.), should the military implement VOLUNTARY separations across the board? Why or why not? What else should the military consider to separate its service members.

Should Military Implement 'Voluntary' Separation?

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Posted 12 y ago

If they don't want to be in then let them go. Those who are motivated and in OS MOS can reclass to US MOS. I would rather have 5 Soldiers working with me who want to serve opposed to 10 where five just want to get out.

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SFC A.M. Drake

12 y

1SG,

What is its your own peers, just curious of your thoughts then? Especially the ones you know.

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1SG Steven Stankovich

Posted 12 y ago

Voluntary Separation Boards? Very interesting. I remember, as I am sure you do also MSG(P) Quick, back in the early to mid-90s when the Army basically opened up the flood gates to get people out. Early retirements, early outs, etc. If you wanted out, you could basically get out. The "powers that be" did not take into consideration rank, MOS, recruitment trends, STAR MOSs, etc. We lost a lot as an overall force at that time.

Fast forward to now. I think that the lesson was learned and this time, to me, seems to be a more phased and planned "drawdown" or "reduction in force." Big Army is tossing out an execution of a means of separation, looking at the amount that is cut, and is then tossing out the next execution. I believe that it is very phased and deliberate.

I am interested in how a Voluntary Separation Board would fit into Big Army's equation. While I think that it is a great idea to send home those who do not want to be here, it is important to maintain strength levels across the board with regards to MOS and ranks.

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CSM Mike Maynard

Posted 12 y ago

Absolutely not.

Voluntary boards usually fail to draw down the right folks or in the right specialties.

Just considering the numbers, voluntary separations would seem to allow us to forego separation boards, but realistically, we would still require the separation boards, because we would still be overstrengthed in certain fields that didn't draw themselves down voluntarily.

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SGT (Join to see)

12 y

CSM Maynard,

Wouldn't it be better to let the ones in MOSs with out-calls voluntarily separate, rather than potentially booting a Soldier that wants to stay (despite a minor blemish or two on their record.)

Certainly, you wouldn't want to go separating everyone who wants out, but if you're looking for someone to put out it would make more sense to me to get rid of the ones who WANT out, first...

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

I agree with SFC Baber's comment that it would save time and effort for boards that attempt to cut numbers by sorting out who is best qualified to go to Fort Couch. But what sparks my curiosity is how would they determine who can voluntarily leave? Would it be based on TIS? (min or max) How would the process work? If Soldiers were able to come to work and out of the blue one day just say "screw it, I'm done" I think we would lose massive number of junior Soldiers who don't understand the reason why we do some of the things we do. Toxic leadership may drive otherwise excellent Soldiers with vast potential for a successful career from the Army. Otherwise....I'm all for it. I wouldn't make it easy. If they don't finish their contracts, I would make them pay back any bonuses they may have gotten. Even enact an "early termination fee" almost like a cellphone contract. There would need to be a control measure of some sort. After all, they did sign a contract with the government. There should be some type of penalty for essentially defaulting on the deal. Just a thought.

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CW3 (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

Although currently suspended, the Navy has used two programs in past years such as the Early Career Transition Program and the Early Enlisted Transition Program which allowed members with up to 24 months left on their enlistment to apply (and be reviewed by board) to either separate early or transition into a reserve unit for the remainder of their contract. The programs were so successful in helping the Navy wean down their numbers that they have since been suspended.

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=72713

http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=70883

Navy Suspends Enlisted Early Transition Program

The Navy announced plans to suspend the Enlisted Early Transition Program (EETP) as leaders focus on maintaining current

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SFC Rocky Gannon

12 y

I believe it can be a good tool to downsizing if it is used properly. We can't allow all the SR people go and "hollow" out the forces.

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SFC Rocky Gannon

12 y

One other thing on that, if a person is substandard then we should not allow them to "Voluntary" get out, we need to ensure that the processes QMP, Passover releases are taking those out of the ranks.

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1LT (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

No, we want to keep the people who can cut it on the outside and cut the people who can't get the job done in a green or a pinstripe suit.

The only voluntary outs the Army is taking right now is people who are identified as being in the zone of consideration for QSP (up-or-out) separation for longevity without recent rank progression. This does save some money on boards and appeals. It cuts people who want to get out and who are considered for elimination already.
However, it keeps in everyone whom we plan to use. Low density MOS, mid-career leaders who will be the senior/strategic leaders of the next war, and everyone whom we paid good money to reenlist.
When you give people the option to get out at reduced benefits, you lose all the experienced people who can make money on the outside. All you're left with is people who either love it too much to quit or are just smart enough to realize that they need the Army more than the Army needs them.

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SFC James Baber

Posted 12 y ago

I thought that they were still in the system from a few years back, if not I think it would be a valuable opportunity to save on many of these boards for the possibility of losing quality leaders due to being cut from the boards.

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SGT (Join to see)

Edited 12 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

I think I posted this somewhere else, but If a Service Member wants out, and there are outcalls at their level.... then let them GO!!! If someone files the paperwork saying they will never reenlist, then start them on ACAP, and get them out ASAP!

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CSM Mike Maynard

12 y

hmmmmm, Ok, I think I could get onboard with the voluntary out if they have an outcall if they sign a DCCS and then we adjust their ETS to 6 months later in order to allow us to recruit/train someone to take their place.

Additionally, since they are not fulfilling their contract, I think they have to take some hit on benefits - we did invest considerable sums in their training.

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SGT (Join to see)

12 y

CSM Maynard,

I imagine that would be reasonable... take part of their GI bill, or maybe even a rank? If someone wants out, you never know what they'd be willing to give up to get out...

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SPC Christopher Smith

Posted 12 y ago

AR 635-200 Chapter 19, Section 4, Page 111-Voluntary Seperation

http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r635_200.pdf

I found this in Korea when I had a soldier who wanted out, almost by any means. Good kid, and I didn't want him to burn bridges that would burn for life. I did the leg work, but the C.o.C did not want to recognize his ability to use this chapter.

Latest ALARACT on the subject is ALARACT 340/2013

http://www.ncosupport.com/files/Early_Separation_Program.pdf

Gives a decent outline on who can absolutely be let out, but AR 635-200 is pretty clear about your options as well.

You have to love straight out the book regulations.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

I think there are a lot of concerns that arise with voluntary separations. One of the first things that comes to mind is whether we should allow Soldiers who received enlistment/reenlistment bonuses to terminate early. Do we allow them to keep their bonus money, or make them pay it back. Perhaps pay back a pro-rated amount.

My next concern is controlling the separations to avoid losing too many good Soldiers. Would we base it on MOS, rank, both, etc.? We could allow Soldiers in over-strength MOSs to reclass as we already do, or we could allow them to separate.

I have heard an idea for how we could facilitate the downsizing of the Army. I don't know that I actually support this idea, but it is something that a colleague recently debated with me. We want the best and brightest, right? Well, one thing we could do is to stop having mandatory PT; allow Soldiers to conduct their own PT. Motivated Soldiers will continue to work out, while the others will not. Over time, the lazy Soldiers will weed themselves out as they start to fail APFTs and/ or start failing to meet the standards of AR 600-9.

I guess I could see the value of having voluntary separations, but perhaps it should be an application style mechanism. Just as Soldiers apply for separation for programs like Green-to-Gold, we could have a system in place where they not only need to apply, but they also need to provide justification and have command approval. We could take it a step further and make the approval authority the first General/Flag officer in their chain of command.

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