Posted on Apr 4, 2014
Should Military Police be required to meet the same requirements as Civilian Police Officers ?
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Civilian police officers must be 21 yrs old in order to be employed as a police officer. They must also attend a police academy that is several months long and pass the Police Officers Selection Test (POST). Law enforcement on a military installation involves the same crimes as the civilian sector but many MP's are very young and only attend a few weeks of the MP school. Under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) MP's are now recognized as Federal Law Enforcement Officers yet they are not qualified to serve as police officers anywhere in the US. However under LEOSA they will soon ( with the proper credentials) be able to carry a concealed weapon nation wide regardless of state and local concealed carry law reciprocity. I firmly believe that all personnel wishing to serve as MP's should have to be 21yrs of age or older, have to attend the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) and pass the POST exam before being allowed to serve as an MP. This not only ensures that they are thoroughly qualified like everyone else, but also certifies them so that should they leave the Army they are qualified to serve in the civilian world.
Military police
Training
Certifications
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 42
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Ok this is probably not going to be a popular response but so be it. I am a Military Policeman. The training that these MP soldiers receive is adequate.
When did you complete the formal United States Army Military Police School at Ft Leonardwood, MO? (Sister services sorry don't know where you go) But it might surprise you to know that USAMPS is now integrating the Missouri POST (Police Officer Standards Test) into its curriculum. So the assumption that the training is substandard is incorrect. Most agencies use POST standards when training and evaluating new officers.
Its easy to say that MP soldiers are poorly trained, but most Installations and in recent years Office of the Provost Marshal General has required standardized Law Enforcement Certifications before those soldiers even begin duties as MP soldiers on post. Agencies are brought in to train, evaluate and test these soldiers and it is becoming in some places an annual requirement for retraining. So they are receiving training. Where it gets tricky with accreditation as federal law enforcement is where federal law and Department of Defense split paths on specific laws. And the LEOSA Act defined military law enforcement for the purpose of concealed carry, not enforcement of law, only for the credentialing of universal concealed carry that law enforcement as afforded.
Lastly, MPs are no stranger to this classification or castigation from others. "They think they are infantry in the field and cops in garrison" mentality. No, wrong again if they are trained properly and molded by NCOs and Officers, they know exactly what they are in the field, Military Police Soldiers with a tough job and almost zero respect from those they serve. When they return to garrison they know exactly what they are Military Police Soldiers that work round the clock answer every call there is from your neighbors dog barking at 3am to when a soldier beats their spouse or kids to a bloody pulp, yup they are there doing the job. Again with almost zero respect, show me one police department with a 100% crime solved rate and the best police officers in the world with zero defects. I hear the same gripes about civilian law enforcement, they suck at their jobs, they just want to be military and they are just shooting unarmed civilians...it goes on and on and on.
Here's a scenario for you: MP brings a 20 year old soldier back to the barracks for underage drinking. (Not DUI, but underage drinking) Now in some instances that 20 year old will be grateful and realize the MPs cut some slack and just brought him home. (We've all been there) Some instances that same 20 year old may talk smack about how he got over on the MPs. (And then everyone talks about the incompetency of the MP.) OR The MP after trying to cut the joe some slack, charges the soldier for underage drinking and you or your 1SG have to come down to the PMO and sign for him. (Then its nothing more than "MPs are just trying to ruin soldiers careers!")
Fact is, in the first instance the MP actually talked to the soldier and found out he/she is dealing with an issue and was blowing off some steam after a bad deployment. So MP takes joe to CQ and says bed him down and get him some counseling in the morning. (A lot of times CQs will never mention it the SDNCO and it doesn't get logged, but that's for another thread.) In the last instance the MP tried the talking approach and that young joe filled with bravado and not to be talked to by an MP started smack talk and ended up charged.
Fact is no matter what we do as MPs no one is going to like or appreciate what we do. Another fact is active duty MP Soldiers do receive additional training and sometimes its from US Marshal Service, State Agencies and Local Agencies. I can't speak for NG soldiers as I haven't trained with them. But I do agree that units that are reclassified to MPs do not receive the adequate training but you'd have to take that up with HQDA.
When did you complete the formal United States Army Military Police School at Ft Leonardwood, MO? (Sister services sorry don't know where you go) But it might surprise you to know that USAMPS is now integrating the Missouri POST (Police Officer Standards Test) into its curriculum. So the assumption that the training is substandard is incorrect. Most agencies use POST standards when training and evaluating new officers.
Its easy to say that MP soldiers are poorly trained, but most Installations and in recent years Office of the Provost Marshal General has required standardized Law Enforcement Certifications before those soldiers even begin duties as MP soldiers on post. Agencies are brought in to train, evaluate and test these soldiers and it is becoming in some places an annual requirement for retraining. So they are receiving training. Where it gets tricky with accreditation as federal law enforcement is where federal law and Department of Defense split paths on specific laws. And the LEOSA Act defined military law enforcement for the purpose of concealed carry, not enforcement of law, only for the credentialing of universal concealed carry that law enforcement as afforded.
Lastly, MPs are no stranger to this classification or castigation from others. "They think they are infantry in the field and cops in garrison" mentality. No, wrong again if they are trained properly and molded by NCOs and Officers, they know exactly what they are in the field, Military Police Soldiers with a tough job and almost zero respect from those they serve. When they return to garrison they know exactly what they are Military Police Soldiers that work round the clock answer every call there is from your neighbors dog barking at 3am to when a soldier beats their spouse or kids to a bloody pulp, yup they are there doing the job. Again with almost zero respect, show me one police department with a 100% crime solved rate and the best police officers in the world with zero defects. I hear the same gripes about civilian law enforcement, they suck at their jobs, they just want to be military and they are just shooting unarmed civilians...it goes on and on and on.
Here's a scenario for you: MP brings a 20 year old soldier back to the barracks for underage drinking. (Not DUI, but underage drinking) Now in some instances that 20 year old will be grateful and realize the MPs cut some slack and just brought him home. (We've all been there) Some instances that same 20 year old may talk smack about how he got over on the MPs. (And then everyone talks about the incompetency of the MP.) OR The MP after trying to cut the joe some slack, charges the soldier for underage drinking and you or your 1SG have to come down to the PMO and sign for him. (Then its nothing more than "MPs are just trying to ruin soldiers careers!")
Fact is, in the first instance the MP actually talked to the soldier and found out he/she is dealing with an issue and was blowing off some steam after a bad deployment. So MP takes joe to CQ and says bed him down and get him some counseling in the morning. (A lot of times CQs will never mention it the SDNCO and it doesn't get logged, but that's for another thread.) In the last instance the MP tried the talking approach and that young joe filled with bravado and not to be talked to by an MP started smack talk and ended up charged.
Fact is no matter what we do as MPs no one is going to like or appreciate what we do. Another fact is active duty MP Soldiers do receive additional training and sometimes its from US Marshal Service, State Agencies and Local Agencies. I can't speak for NG soldiers as I haven't trained with them. But I do agree that units that are reclassified to MPs do not receive the adequate training but you'd have to take that up with HQDA.
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SGT Bryon Sergent
If you enlist as an MP this would be great, But I unfortunately like others here might have re classed and went to a school taught by MP's. Far the curriculum it is what was set by big Army. But the stuff crammed in in 4 weeks isn't enough. we test at the point we learned it. Then go to a unit that isn't L&O. Then we forget most of the stuff that we retained. Maybe send re class to the same school as the BASIC trainee's. Problem there is that the Guard and reserve wont have the money for reclass I'm afraid.
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SGT (Join to see)
Ok, I am a former Guardsman who re-classed to Military Police and then went Active Duty. If your Guard or Reserve wants you to get the full class at Ft. Leonard Wood, you will. My entire unit from NJ went. I ,110% agree with SFC Davenport, which is why we are the most hated MOS amongst other branches. I like to consider myself very customer friendly, and have seen my fair share of the corrupt, and insane things that go into being an MP. I don't know if your an MP; I hope not if that is your attitude our profession. I take pride doing my job, and looking out for my community. We (as a core) have to complete annual refresher classes to work the road, and Daily have classes on Road operations to include things that are updated through the Law Enforcement community. If this i something that is not happening with your unit, or somebody you know; their unit and PMO is at fault.
I do think that it would be nice to have more accessibility for Military Law Enforcement to complete other Federal Law Enforcement training such as (more imparticularly) e-FLETC courses. This would be a great incentive for those LEO's to progress, and could help Soldiers learn techniques that maybe otherwise unaccessible to their area (i.e. Overseas). Oh, I have recently assisted in OJT'ing, a Guard Unit, and from there assessment from not only their unit, but the PMO, and my unit was extremely positive.
I do think that it would be nice to have more accessibility for Military Law Enforcement to complete other Federal Law Enforcement training such as (more imparticularly) e-FLETC courses. This would be a great incentive for those LEO's to progress, and could help Soldiers learn techniques that maybe otherwise unaccessible to their area (i.e. Overseas). Oh, I have recently assisted in OJT'ing, a Guard Unit, and from there assessment from not only their unit, but the PMO, and my unit was extremely positive.
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SSG Bill McCoy
Perfectly stated ... when I was at Walter Reed (the original in D.C.) with the 236th MP Detachment, we were pretty much detested if not purely hated. It was pretty tough duty but the detachment was a hard working unit. Later, at Ft. Belvoir where two companies worked (521st MP, Garrison, and 437th MP Combat MP's who pulled Garrison also), the MP's were pretty much respected overall. I was in the 437th that was detached from the 519th MP BN at Ft. Meade, MD. We rotated 12 weeks road duty, and 6 weeks training. We participated in training with the DEA (back then, BNDD - Bureau of Narcotics & Dangerous Drugs), and some of us had training with the D.C. Metro PD, Fairfax County PD and VA State Police. We were on a Mutual Aid Network with D.C., and the Counties Fairfax, Prince William and various MD Counties and the VA State Police. Our MP station had the NCIC and VCIN (Virginia Criminal Information Network) and was a state of the art station for it's day.
When the 437th arrived at Belvoir, they rolled onto post with M151-A2 & A2 Jeeps, M-60 Gun Jeeps and V-100 armored vehicles with Twin M-60's. It was pretty cool and gave the unit a "mystique" of sorts. We had green tabs on our epaulets that, back then, was a designation for Combat Units. Initially, we manned our own shifts, and the 521st manned theirs but ultimately the shifts became merged with MP's from both. While separate, we noticed a DISTINCT difference in attitudes from just about everyone; but especially suspects. The green epaulets' "mystique" was, "Don't mess with those MP's!" Frankly, it was fun but eventually, we went from Combat to Combat Support and no longer were able to wear the green epaulets marker.
Another thing that helped was when the MP Corps went from strictly MP Brassards to the MP Badge in Class A's or Khakis - especially when dealing with civilians. I don't know why the Badge is no longer used except where the local commands prefer it over the brassard.
Image is everything ... and sharp uniforms make a big difference which is why I abhor the use of the combat uniforms worn today even in Garrison MP units!
Sorry to ramble ... but again, SFC (Verify To See)'s post was spot on!
When the 437th arrived at Belvoir, they rolled onto post with M151-A2 & A2 Jeeps, M-60 Gun Jeeps and V-100 armored vehicles with Twin M-60's. It was pretty cool and gave the unit a "mystique" of sorts. We had green tabs on our epaulets that, back then, was a designation for Combat Units. Initially, we manned our own shifts, and the 521st manned theirs but ultimately the shifts became merged with MP's from both. While separate, we noticed a DISTINCT difference in attitudes from just about everyone; but especially suspects. The green epaulets' "mystique" was, "Don't mess with those MP's!" Frankly, it was fun but eventually, we went from Combat to Combat Support and no longer were able to wear the green epaulets marker.
Another thing that helped was when the MP Corps went from strictly MP Brassards to the MP Badge in Class A's or Khakis - especially when dealing with civilians. I don't know why the Badge is no longer used except where the local commands prefer it over the brassard.
Image is everything ... and sharp uniforms make a big difference which is why I abhor the use of the combat uniforms worn today even in Garrison MP units!
Sorry to ramble ... but again, SFC (Verify To See)'s post was spot on!
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The answer is simple. Yes and without a doubt. There are a lot of Soldiers who join the Service as MPs to serve their country and then become police in the civilian world. Where they end up upset, is when they get out they find out that there is no equivalence and have to do all the training. Why not help everyone out and make the training the same across the board. <br>
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MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht
Sounds good.suggest a cross training school/ class. Civilians train in the Army and Army in theirs. My bet, alot would not pass the Army. Especially some of the cops I have seen. I doubt in they could run a half a block.
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Being a former Police Officer and MP I don't think this needs to be done for all MPs. MPs don't just work garrison and from my understanding most post use civilian DoD for the LE mission now.
MP have a much greater responsibility than just LE. Our job in combat is to go behind the infantry and release them to push forward. We then take over the duties of civilian law enforcement, detain the POWs, guide and guard the supplies moving forward, enforce the laws of the UCMJ for military personnel and most importantly make sure the enemy does not sneak up behind the infantry as they are pushing forward. It is not all about writing tickets and taking the drunks to their 1SG. So not everybody can be a 21 year old certified police officer. There has to be drivers, gunners, guards, fire teams, radio operators, correction officers, and so on.
Now MPs that are doing garrison patrol should receive more training in LE role. Maybe a school like Victor 5, but for patrol. I think it would not only benefit the post, but if a soldier could actually get a POST Cert he could get a job when he got out.
MP have a much greater responsibility than just LE. Our job in combat is to go behind the infantry and release them to push forward. We then take over the duties of civilian law enforcement, detain the POWs, guide and guard the supplies moving forward, enforce the laws of the UCMJ for military personnel and most importantly make sure the enemy does not sneak up behind the infantry as they are pushing forward. It is not all about writing tickets and taking the drunks to their 1SG. So not everybody can be a 21 year old certified police officer. There has to be drivers, gunners, guards, fire teams, radio operators, correction officers, and so on.
Now MPs that are doing garrison patrol should receive more training in LE role. Maybe a school like Victor 5, but for patrol. I think it would not only benefit the post, but if a soldier could actually get a POST Cert he could get a job when he got out.
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SSG Bill McCoy
Good points. I always like the memes that note that unlike our civilian counterparts, the MP's have to deal with soldiers/suspects who are often armed - at least overseas. Sort of like Game Wardens (GW) do. That means that MP's and GW's have to be taught and develop certain skillsets.
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