Posted on Nov 20, 2019
Should President Trump provide credibility back to UCMJ by charging to start with: Admiral Green, Adm Gilday, Secretary Spencer?
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Responses: 188
If a person is pardoned, legally he should be restored to what he was before the offense. I also understand that the military is a little more complicated than civilian life. If someone from a bank embezzled money and was pardoned he wouldn't get his job back. He just wouldn't be in jail. So I think the best solution to this would be just let him go with what he has. Retirement awards (that he earned) etc. Doesn't Bill Clinton still get a pension and Secret Service protection? And people still call him Mr. President. Does a Seal who risked his life for the country deserve less? I think President Trump is just trying to recognize that he is one of our heroes and sometimes heroes have to do things that regular people don't understand. I don't think this warrants a fight between the Commander in Chief and his commanders. Just let it be
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I think it a dangerous thing for the President to overrule a UCMJ issue. I support the President on most issues, but not here. This is not a decision that will assist in maintaining good order and discipline within the ranks. President Trump showed terrible judgement here and he basically spit in the face of our military justice system. The man was tried, convicted and sentenced.
I suppose now anyone convicted of misconduct in a time of war deserves a Presidential review. Talk about a can of worms.
I suppose now anyone convicted of misconduct in a time of war deserves a Presidential review. Talk about a can of worms.
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SFC David Xanten
GySgt Kenneth Pepper - Those were Illegal Ordrs. What President Trump did is within his purview. You may Need to review the UCMJ.
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Your first mistake is putting faith in a "president"who has absolutely no idea how the UCMJ works. Your second mistake is failing to realize this current president has proven to be NO LEADER.
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SFC David Xanten
SSG Shawn Mcfadden - I don't care about you Career. What I didn't like about your comments were that you were calling someone a punk. Calling names is a sign of someone who doesn't have the ability to argue the facts so they resort to name calling. My Platoon in RVN had a similar situation as the one where Gallagher was filmed with a dead body. so I know just what happens to the men in the picture and the Commanders who were present.
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SSG Shawn Mcfadden
SFC David Xanten - Well that arrogant little PRICK shouldn't have opened his mouth the way he did.
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Capt Edward Egan
The R.O.E. are politically correct bullshit that in many cases cost our lives. We should confuse, demoralize, and kill our enemies. It's too bad that we no longer drink from the skulls of our enemies.
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SSG Shawn Mcfadden
Capt Edward Egan - Doing things like that would make us no better that the enemy.
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Well for one.. wtf are you talking about?? A President got involved in military judicial proceedings all for the sole fact that it made him look like he was fighting for an American patriot.. you can be a Patriot and still be a criminal, which this guy more than likely was... Aside from actually killing some terrorist kid, to threatening with death those he was to call Brothers.. and then gets butthurt when he actually gets pointed out for committing a serious crime.. thats why there should be no sense involvement whatsoever from any outside party in military justice proceedings.. cus we have people like you already siding with a President with less than 4 years if government involvement, thàn having the military common sense that comes with being a member of the military..
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Trump need to get out of the way of all legal actions taking place. It does not matter if the are against Active Duty Military or Civilians. His approach to all of this is undermining the system. No matter what he does it is wrong and if he feels he must step in wait until it over and then pardon them. Or is he taking these actions for the votes?
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How can the president have any say when it comes to the Military, he's a coward, draft dodger and never served in any way, shape or form. He's not fit to be the President of America.
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SFC David Xanten
888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any
commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice
President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Any
commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice
President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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I began my military service as a Combat Engineer, but because of my education level and command of language and grammar I was chose to replace the Battalion Legal Clerk in 1967 when he volunteered for Vietnam. It was OJT to the max, and I kept my head in the UCMJ for months. I had great help from the Deputy SJA at 3rd AD in Frankfurt, and even got to sit in on Article 32 hearings and a civilian murder trial. I still trained as an Engineer, but my duties were that of the Legal Clerk. After being assigned to an Artillery Battalion in Vietnam as a Combat Engineer II know, right?) I learned I would be replacing the 2nd year law student who was being transferred to IFFV HQ in Nha Trang. Legal Clerk once again. It turns out that MAJ Frank O'brien, former Dei SJA at the 3rd AD had spotted my info coming through and had requested that I be sent to the 1/92 Arty. All of this has bearing on the current question. In Europe, during the Cold War, we were allowed great liberty on the civilian economy, and troops would get into trouble. Maintaining good order and discipline was priority one for my position, and maintaining the integrity of the chain of command was the heart of that mission. Fast forward to Vietnam and a combat role for my unit, and it became a matter of life and death. Chainof command was crucial to accomplishing our mission, which became more hazardous in April 1969 when we became the first artillery unit to lose all US ground force support in the Vietnam War after Nixon's election. The 1/92 Field Arty and the 299th Combat Engineers were left with an area of operations that was 1200 miles square and incorporated 200 miles of the Cambodian Border. What would ur level of effectiveness been, and our rate of casualties within the unit had we not been able to maintain an integral chin of command? That is what the UCMJ is for, and it functioned very well for us.
We now have a Commander in Chief who has taken it upon himself to countermand the decisions of the military and the Rule of Law under the UCMJ to, in my opinion, illegally overturn a court decision and circumvent the Chain of Command at the highest level. This undermines the good order and discipline of the military and endangers all of our missions worldwide. I was taught that I was obligated to follow all orders from superior officers and NCOs - UNLESS THEY WERE ILLEGAL ORDERS! Regardless of where the orders came from to pardon these criminals, the CIC's interference with military discipline qualifies as detrimental to the military and needs to be corrected before we slide into a dictatorship.
We now have a Commander in Chief who has taken it upon himself to countermand the decisions of the military and the Rule of Law under the UCMJ to, in my opinion, illegally overturn a court decision and circumvent the Chain of Command at the highest level. This undermines the good order and discipline of the military and endangers all of our missions worldwide. I was taught that I was obligated to follow all orders from superior officers and NCOs - UNLESS THEY WERE ILLEGAL ORDERS! Regardless of where the orders came from to pardon these criminals, the CIC's interference with military discipline qualifies as detrimental to the military and needs to be corrected before we slide into a dictatorship.
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SP6 Christopher Haydon
Thank you, sir. I grew up in a fighter pilot’s family...chain of command is crucialLTC Donell Kelly
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SP6 Christopher Haydon
Yes Ma-am! I'm a 74 year old Vietnam vet who grew up around the military with a cold warrior. I've been working on veteran's issues regarding blast overpressure injuries that somehow miraculously were only identified after IED started doing so much damage. My unit, in the 4 1/2 years that it was in country, fired 508,653 155mm rounds from a short-barreled WWII artillery piece that we modified to fire in a 360 degree field of fire. We fired 6 rounds a minute for hours at a time...and in my year we fired over 200,000 rounds - 88,000 in May and June of 1969 alone. We are all brain damaged and the VAand the DOD continue to "study" the problem. What we need is a declaration of "presumptive injury" based upon our unit assignments (not MOS - everyone got to play war in my unit...). Any suggestion you might have as to how to break the log jam would be appreciated. We are all slipping into early onset dementia. Our wives are caring for us...and if we aren't adjudicated 100% they will receive nothing when we die.
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SPC (Join to see)
One man vs. One case does not make a dictator. What a willfully ignorant comment. We seem to not like out CinC around here... Huh, glad I don't have to do this anymore.
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I feel that they were trying to uphold the office of command. I feel trump stepped way out of line.l also feel that a draft Dodger should never determine military justice. They have no clue of the responsibility of how we discharge our duties. He has created a rift in the system that will have long lasting repercussions.
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SP6 Christopher Haydon
SPC Canning. To disagree without stating a position as to why doesn't count for much.
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SFC David Xanten
888. ART. 88. CONTEMPT TOWARD OFFICIALS
Any
commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice
President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
Any
commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice
President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military
department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of
any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or
present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
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I Agree, Trump should never be involve, the Secretary of the navy should make those decision.
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It sucks to see this happen. But i cant see how an admiral would see this as a smart decision given the risk / reward here. Why not just let this pass, learn from it and allow government and military leaders to review their ucmj issues behind closed doors? That seems much smarter in my opinion.
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