Posted on Jan 8, 2016
Should QMP severance packages be counted against you for VA disability compensation?
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So...I found out yesterday, if someone gets QMP'ed out the Army, and they receive a severance package, then that person does not receive VA disability until the amount of VA disability is equal to the severance package.
I.E. I get QMP'ed and my severance package is $30,000, getting paid 5,000 a month, I won't start getting my VA disability for 6 months. I asked a VA rep and he confirmed this and stated "there is no free money", which I opinionated "please don't classify VA disability as free money....people that get that have more than paid for that."......anyways community...what do you feel about this?
I.E. I get QMP'ed and my severance package is $30,000, getting paid 5,000 a month, I won't start getting my VA disability for 6 months. I asked a VA rep and he confirmed this and stated "there is no free money", which I opinionated "please don't classify VA disability as free money....people that get that have more than paid for that."......anyways community...what do you feel about this?
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 10
SSG (Join to see) Absolutely NOT! As was very well stated by MAJ Ken Landgren "Severance is earned. Disability is eared, so why do they offset by taking away what is earned?"
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Several discussions on this topic. Under this current rule, that is unfair in my opinion, a Soldier is given incentive to not QMP. Rather take the administrative separation, you would have been far better off going into the IDES process and receiving your DOD and VA rating prior to discharge.
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Been there and done that. I was medically separated in July of 2004 (I have discussed this very topic on RP). I got a severance, which at that time was based on the formula of 2 x base x number of years served. My severance was $36,014.40. After 28% taxation (yes, it's taxed), it came to $25,930. Yes, it is taxed.
Got out, went to the VA and was deemed to be 20% disabled. I did not see a penny of my VA money until 2013. I had to pay back all $36,014.40.
They call it double dipping. I am not sure how or why. DA/DoD and the VA have separate budgets and different accounting systems. That money doesn't come from the same pool.
Yet somehow, the current federal law says, "sorry we broke you beyond usefulness service member. Here is some money to assist your transition. By the way, it's just a loan. We will be getting it back."
Unfortunately, I didn't find out that it would be recouped until I had been out for 6 months and called the VA to ask why I had not started receiving benefits.
Got out, went to the VA and was deemed to be 20% disabled. I did not see a penny of my VA money until 2013. I had to pay back all $36,014.40.
They call it double dipping. I am not sure how or why. DA/DoD and the VA have separate budgets and different accounting systems. That money doesn't come from the same pool.
Yet somehow, the current federal law says, "sorry we broke you beyond usefulness service member. Here is some money to assist your transition. By the way, it's just a loan. We will be getting it back."
Unfortunately, I didn't find out that it would be recouped until I had been out for 6 months and called the VA to ask why I had not started receiving benefits.
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MCPO Roger Collins
Years ago I went with the VA. They tried to give me $100 per month. When I asked how that would effect my retirement pay their answer was vague so I went through the process to refuse the VA pay. Looks like it was a good idea.
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SGT Frank Yarum
Actually you would still get your retirement pay each month, but it would be 100.00 less, and you would get the 100.00 from VA Disability. Another words you would have actually be taking home more money because the 100.00 dollars they took from you retirement was being taxed and as disability it would not be.
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SGT Frank Yarum
SgtmcKinley, you can file a 1040X for each year that you should have received disability pay so you can get your tax money back. Unfortunately you can only submit a 1040X for the previous 5 tax years and since you started receiving your disability pay in 2013 and it is now 2015 tax season you can only submit one for 2013, 12, 11, and 10. You will lose the taxes you could have gotten back had you filed a 1040X for the previous year's tax season when you filed your regular taxes. You need to talk to a professional tax person. My separation pay was 37k and after taxes was about 25k. My first disability rating was 30% which after another 3 years and a letter of disagreement was increased to 50%. Long story short I got all my tax money back from uncle Sam but it took me 5 years of tax seasons to do it. Stupid thing is, is that after all of my appeals I ended up with 100% service connection. And everything that they approved was what was wrong with me the day I was discharged from the service on August 1, 1994. It took me 17 years of appeals and 1 Appeals Board. Had the Army treated me like a human being when they did my exit exam I would have been medically retired rather then separated. The military does not want to pay for that though, they would rather force people to either work injured or end up on the streets rather then take care of them before they release them from serving their country.
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Is this article about the same thing?
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/veterans/2015/10/18/separation-pay-payback/73925870/
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/benefits/veterans/2015/10/18/separation-pay-payback/73925870/
Vets dismayed by VA payback rules on separation pay
A Marine Corps staff sergeant named Stephen agreed to leave the service a few years ago as the Corps was drawing down and the Marines offered him
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I understand what you're going through. When I was 1 year from re enlisting I was offered an early out bonus if I ETSed at 14 years, or I could wait till my actual ETS date and get out with nothing, as I would not be allowed to re enlist do to the perm profile I had for Injuries sustained during service. Amazingly enough when they did my exit physical they said I was fine and did not qualify for a medical. Anyway I received 37k as a severance and when I got out filed for disability with the VA. After they approved 30% they told me I would not receive any pay until it balanced out against the severance pay. The problem is that the severance is taxable were as disability pay is not. In your case you said you get 5k a month so no disability pay for 6 months. It took 5 years for mine to balance out. It it a long drawn out story but I was able to get Uncle Sam to give back all the taxes he took from my severance by having it converted to disability pay. If you have a disability rating from VA already, they should be able to provide you with how much they would have paid you each month had you not received the 30k from military. If you need to talk, [login to see]
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SSG (Join to see)
That sucks man....I'm not going through it, one of my buddies is, when he told me about it, it just sounded like the craziest military pay thing I've heard in 17 years
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SGT Frank Yarum
Blew my mine too when the VA told me they wouldn't give me any money till the two balanced out.
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I haven't kept up with all various separation programs that are in effect now as compared to when we went through them in the 90s. I have an idea as to why this policy is the way it is, based on my experience running a software company after I retired. So I'm going to suggest a possible way the military/VA is looking at this, but if it is all screwed up and not applicable, please just disregard what follows.
Let's say I had an employee making $30k a year who had worked for us for many years. I decided I needed to downsize the company workforce. I want to soften the blow for the employee, so I offer severance pay. But what does that pay really represent? It doesn't actually represent anything earned for the years already worked. That's what his salary covered. Likewise, in the military, you do not "earn" severance pay; you were paid in full for your services as you worked them. So for my employee (and for a service member) severance pay represents a situation where you are continuing to recieve pay, even though you are no longer working. In the civilian world, often instead of having an employee hang around the company for a month knowing they will be fired in 30 days, we give them 30 days pay and have them leave. But in a way, they are still receiving their salary.
My guess is that the military looks at severance pay in a similar fashion. It is not pay due for services already rendered. It is in essence, a contiunation of salary for X amount of months, without any obligation to continue to work. Now, as to the disability pay, no soldier receives it while still on active duty receiving their salary. It doesn't kick in until the salary stops. So if you consider severance pay as a continuation of salary, then you can see why the disability pay wouldn't start until you quit receivng that salary. I think the VA and military look at severance pay as the equivalent of active duty salary, and therefore disability can't start until that is over. And it's considered over when the amount of the severance pay is covered by the amountof the disability pay withheld.
So that's my theory, but it's not based upon the reading of any military or VA regs, so it may be completely wrong. and the analogy may not be a great fit. But basically the military is saying that your are entitled to X amount of disability pay a month once you are out; but if you have received sevarance pay, that supercedes the disability pay. So you can't have it both ways. But given the way things work in the civilian world, I can see how they came up with this policy.
Let's say I had an employee making $30k a year who had worked for us for many years. I decided I needed to downsize the company workforce. I want to soften the blow for the employee, so I offer severance pay. But what does that pay really represent? It doesn't actually represent anything earned for the years already worked. That's what his salary covered. Likewise, in the military, you do not "earn" severance pay; you were paid in full for your services as you worked them. So for my employee (and for a service member) severance pay represents a situation where you are continuing to recieve pay, even though you are no longer working. In the civilian world, often instead of having an employee hang around the company for a month knowing they will be fired in 30 days, we give them 30 days pay and have them leave. But in a way, they are still receiving their salary.
My guess is that the military looks at severance pay in a similar fashion. It is not pay due for services already rendered. It is in essence, a contiunation of salary for X amount of months, without any obligation to continue to work. Now, as to the disability pay, no soldier receives it while still on active duty receiving their salary. It doesn't kick in until the salary stops. So if you consider severance pay as a continuation of salary, then you can see why the disability pay wouldn't start until you quit receivng that salary. I think the VA and military look at severance pay as the equivalent of active duty salary, and therefore disability can't start until that is over. And it's considered over when the amount of the severance pay is covered by the amountof the disability pay withheld.
So that's my theory, but it's not based upon the reading of any military or VA regs, so it may be completely wrong. and the analogy may not be a great fit. But basically the military is saying that your are entitled to X amount of disability pay a month once you are out; but if you have received sevarance pay, that supercedes the disability pay. So you can't have it both ways. But given the way things work in the civilian world, I can see how they came up with this policy.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
Separation pay is based off of the loss in retirement benefits because you no longer have the opportunity to attain the 20 year cliff retirement. It will be interesting if it changes in the future for soldiers once they start doing the 401k matches.
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LTC (Join to see)
CPT Mark Gonzalez - if so, that would be a change from the older versions. Because the Army never guarantees anyone that they will get to 20 years (separate from the old 18 year lock in). So just because a captain or NCO makes it to seven years of service, for example, doesnt mean he has any sort of vested equity in a 20 year retirement. The Army never looked at separation pay as representing something it owed you. In fact, during the drawdown in the 90s, they told all the CPTs going before the Majors board that you could volunteer to get out before the board met, and get separation pay. But if you took your chances and went before the board and were nonselect, you would be separated with no separation pay at all. So you ended up with CPTs from the same year group getting out, one with separation pay and one with nothing.
But again, my frame of reference is the old system. So it could be very different now.
But again, my frame of reference is the old system. So it could be very different now.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
LTC Michael Mathews after doing some reading I agree with you. I need to do some more research.
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SGT Frank Yarum
LTC Michael Matthews, I ran a Branch Office for a world wide security organization and I also received separation pay in 1994 that was then turned into disability pay. Your description of how the severance pay is looked at by the military as continued military pay is exactly correct and so is how severance pay for civilian severance by civilian employers works, but that is not what is happening with the VA Disability and the separation/severance pay from the military. In your example my 37 k separation pay that I received when I got out would be to cover my military salary (at that time in 1994 I was making about 26 k per year) for almost 1.5 years after I got out. But if the VA looked at the severance pay like that then why did they take my disability pay for 5 years. Your logic would be the right way but we are dealing with the US Government. Here is another perfect example of 1 government agency contradicting another; I am 100% service connected with 17 different rated disabilities, I worked as long as possible after I got out of the service and had a 94% rating until I could no longer work. After I received the 100% in 2010 I filed for Social Security Disability (yes you can draw both, it is not considered double dipping). I have been to SSD Court now 3 times and my case is now at the SSD Board of Appeals for the second time. So far my SSD case has been going on for 5.5 years even though 1 government agency says I am disabled another says I'm not. And anyone that has tried to get 100% from the VA knows just how hard that is. The rules for VA Disability are actually tougher then SSD yet they still will do what ever they can to screw people over. If I add up all my ratings together they total 365%, but the way the VA adds it is 100%.
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You get paid by whatever agency is paying the most. There are other circumstances and programs that go in depth. So if the Army is paying you a severance that is more than what your VA disability rating is then your getting paid by Army. If your VA benefits are more than your severance, you will get the VA pay. You can't double dip from both. Of course there are other circumstances.
CDRP
CRSC
VA waiver just to name a few things.
CDRP
CRSC
VA waiver just to name a few things.
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SSG (Join to see)
I personally don't consider it double dipping, you earned your severance from the years of service, and earned your disability for what certain people put their bodies through in the interest of our nation.
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SFC (Join to see)
It's federal law. It's not going to change. I agree with you but it is what it is. To be honest not all those being QMP'd are deserving. Let's not forget that there are scum bags in our military, service members that are in just hustling and trying to play the system.
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CPT Mark Gonzalez
After 20 years of service you can receive both, it is called concurrent pay. The obvious justification is that after 20 years of service you would have earned a normal retirement. However, this undermines the logic of recoupment as involuntary separation pay is justified for lost future retirement benefits.
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SSG (Join to see)
There is no story....this is an opinion about VA pay policy. Are you referring to a back story on why someone would get QMP'ed? Cause that is not the issue or ever a subject in this question. Someone could have been QMP'ed for stealing toilet paper or burning a baby, either way, this is the policy.
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SFC Pete Kain
SSG (Join to see) - No story? Then what is the point of the question? I am pretty sure that V.A. goes on a case by case basis.. BTDT
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SSG (Join to see)
The point of this question is on the post, "what is the communities opinion on this"
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That sounds bizarre SSG (Join to see). If you have service-connected disabilities you are entitled to VA disability status unless you are medically retired from the military.
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SSG (Join to see)
Correct, my buddy told me on Monday about this....and I confirmed it with someone that actually works at the VA yesterday.
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