Posted on Nov 23, 2014
Should Ranger School have different standards for female candidates?
11.5K
76
47
2
2
0
Posted in these groups: 
Women in the Military
Women in the Military
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 33
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
My point is if you want to join the US Army Ranger School then you must be ready to prove what you are made of by completing the entire military training be male or female. The standard is the same across the board. The enemy does not differentiate between which gender to capture, kill or let go in the battlefield, therefore I don't think there should be a special training reserved for females. Anything a man can do a woman can also do better no doubt. No compromise on gender issue.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
Assuming that "the standards" actually have some logical connection with the real goal of training, not only "no." but "Hell NO!!!".
If "the standards" DO NOT actually have some logical connection with the real goal of training (T.G.A.S.E. - requiring all cooks to be fluent in Romulan) then "the standards" should be changed - for everyone - to standards which DO actually have some logical connection with the real goal of training (T.G.A.S.E. - requiring all cooks to be able to tell the difference between sugar and powdered dish soap)
If "the standards" DO NOT actually have some logical connection with the real goal of training (T.G.A.S.E. - requiring all cooks to be fluent in Romulan) then "the standards" should be changed - for everyone - to standards which DO actually have some logical connection with the real goal of training (T.G.A.S.E. - requiring all cooks to be able to tell the difference between sugar and powdered dish soap)
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
In hope that it would not turn into a pile on become an out of control discussion. I do wish that we had some of the females who have/are applying to attend Ranger School and also some of the 31 "female advisors" to instructors and cdrs join in on this conversation.
It would be great to hear their viewpoint and there assessment to many of the comments made by the old guard (myself included), who are trying to keep an open mind, but just do not believe this is going to happen without changing the standards and Ranger instructor tactics.
The only public communication we hear are coming out of the Puzzle Palace in the Belt Way. The lid has been put on the Training Bde, leaders and Instructors. Now why is that??
It would be great to hear their viewpoint and there assessment to many of the comments made by the old guard (myself included), who are trying to keep an open mind, but just do not believe this is going to happen without changing the standards and Ranger instructor tactics.
The only public communication we hear are coming out of the Puzzle Palace in the Belt Way. The lid has been put on the Training Bde, leaders and Instructors. Now why is that??
(0)
(0)
MSG (Join to see)
It happens to be that one of the 31 "female advisors" is a good friend of mine. She should be getting back soon. I'll see if she can join our conversation.
(1)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
Sure, as long as you are okay with taking all of that history and 'eliteness' (Sure I know it's not really a word) and dump in down the latrine. But in the chase for equality, all things are possible.
Let's be honest here, standards are lowered all the time, whether it is for female or male Soldiers. I know Soldiers out of AIT have been 'passed' just so they are no longer the cadre's problems. I also know Soldiers out of basic who are 'passed' without actually passing. These are not my stories that I have made up, these are cadre and Soldiers that have told me this. I can't speak about the combat arms training, as I haven't been combat arms in a billion years...
Let's be honest here, standards are lowered all the time, whether it is for female or male Soldiers. I know Soldiers out of AIT have been 'passed' just so they are no longer the cadre's problems. I also know Soldiers out of basic who are 'passed' without actually passing. These are not my stories that I have made up, these are cadre and Soldiers that have told me this. I can't speak about the combat arms training, as I haven't been combat arms in a billion years...
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
Absolutely Training standards should not change! However they will. As the 1st class with female Ranger Trainees comes together, Ranger Cadre Instructors will have recieved specific guidance on what they can and can not do. The Female Ranger students will not receive the "same" treatment as the male candidates. It will be G.I. Jane, only this time in real life, and, NO, the standards will not be the same between male and female candidates.
I will not be surprised if it has not already been determined that the female graduation rate "must" meet that as the male candidates, whether the standards have been met or not. This is a politically driven decision not a military driven decision, so we know this has been a topic of discussion.
WE know that a known and established goal in Ranger School is to push students to exhaustion and then see how far they can keep going and weaknesses are pounced on quickly. This will not be the case for female candidates; Will hand to hand combat training in the pits require women against women or will it be "realistic" training of women against men? Remember, in 2012 the USMC open its Officer Infantry Course to women, none passed that year. Why was that.... no change in standards. I do not know if any have yet to pass! I am interested to find out now!
The Army will be assigning Females to serve as observers/advisors to give input to Ranger Instructors and Commanders...Really! What kind of input, could they possibly have to provide. These will not be Female Rangers, they are not required to complete Ranger School! What will their advise be when it's day 10 in the swamp, constantly wet, cold miserable, students droning out all over the place. Really, what....they will not have experienced it, so what advise could they offer ....from a female Ranger viewpoint? Where have the observer/advisors been for the male candidates...no wait, they are already here....they are the Ranger Instructors. WTH!
Fortunately at this time, the Army has not totally lost its mind. Females who do successfully graduate from Ranger School will be allowed to wear the Tab, none will be assigned to the Ranger Regiment or to a Ranger Battalion. Why is that...if they graduate and earn their Tab, why can't they be Rangers, not just Ranger School graduates...there is only hell of difference.....ask any Ranger in the Regiment from PVT to the Regt'l Cdr.
Folks I know many will think I'm coming across as an ass and expect to see may down votes for this post. Please think about this...all the talk we see and hear through the media comes from the Chief of Staff, SMA, DA senior officials....not a word from the Ranger Training Bde. Why, they've been told to shut up and color between the lines.
To say again what I said earlier. I wish every female who decides to attend, the very best of luck and nothing but success and hope they get Tabbed! However, I hope this is done with the same standards that have been in place for every Ranger Class prior to their attendence. Even if it's not (which it won't), their passing will still be a great achievement!
But it will be a tainted achievement; a politically motivated publicity stunt; everyone will know it; if it wasn't, females would not still be restricted from being assigned to the Regiment or one of the Battalions.
It's G.I. Jane in present day, without the popcorn and sodas. Its another case of the inmates running the politilco-military asylum, with the inmates being the politicans and the senior military leadership not rolling up it's sleeves taking a position, but rather choosing to follow suit to mantain their prestigious position.
Our military leaders used to provide advise to Congress and White House; Not anymore; They've never served a day in uniform; no nothing about being a Soldier, a leader, especially what it takes to be a Combat Arms Soldier, SF, Ranger, etc! But they seem to have all the answers and solutions!
My thoughts and concerns are, what will they come up with next....and then when the bullets begin flying in the next battle, how many Soldiers will die because of stupid political-military decisions. Haven't we seen enough of that over the last 10 years with many decisions made from within the D.C. Beltway, instead of by Commanders and leaders on the ground leading those Soldiers, NCOs, and Jr. Officers out their fighting for their lives and this country. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/10/09/three-women-have-applied-to-be-army-ranger-school-advisers.html
I will not be surprised if it has not already been determined that the female graduation rate "must" meet that as the male candidates, whether the standards have been met or not. This is a politically driven decision not a military driven decision, so we know this has been a topic of discussion.
WE know that a known and established goal in Ranger School is to push students to exhaustion and then see how far they can keep going and weaknesses are pounced on quickly. This will not be the case for female candidates; Will hand to hand combat training in the pits require women against women or will it be "realistic" training of women against men? Remember, in 2012 the USMC open its Officer Infantry Course to women, none passed that year. Why was that.... no change in standards. I do not know if any have yet to pass! I am interested to find out now!
The Army will be assigning Females to serve as observers/advisors to give input to Ranger Instructors and Commanders...Really! What kind of input, could they possibly have to provide. These will not be Female Rangers, they are not required to complete Ranger School! What will their advise be when it's day 10 in the swamp, constantly wet, cold miserable, students droning out all over the place. Really, what....they will not have experienced it, so what advise could they offer ....from a female Ranger viewpoint? Where have the observer/advisors been for the male candidates...no wait, they are already here....they are the Ranger Instructors. WTH!
Fortunately at this time, the Army has not totally lost its mind. Females who do successfully graduate from Ranger School will be allowed to wear the Tab, none will be assigned to the Ranger Regiment or to a Ranger Battalion. Why is that...if they graduate and earn their Tab, why can't they be Rangers, not just Ranger School graduates...there is only hell of difference.....ask any Ranger in the Regiment from PVT to the Regt'l Cdr.
Folks I know many will think I'm coming across as an ass and expect to see may down votes for this post. Please think about this...all the talk we see and hear through the media comes from the Chief of Staff, SMA, DA senior officials....not a word from the Ranger Training Bde. Why, they've been told to shut up and color between the lines.
To say again what I said earlier. I wish every female who decides to attend, the very best of luck and nothing but success and hope they get Tabbed! However, I hope this is done with the same standards that have been in place for every Ranger Class prior to their attendence. Even if it's not (which it won't), their passing will still be a great achievement!
But it will be a tainted achievement; a politically motivated publicity stunt; everyone will know it; if it wasn't, females would not still be restricted from being assigned to the Regiment or one of the Battalions.
It's G.I. Jane in present day, without the popcorn and sodas. Its another case of the inmates running the politilco-military asylum, with the inmates being the politicans and the senior military leadership not rolling up it's sleeves taking a position, but rather choosing to follow suit to mantain their prestigious position.
Our military leaders used to provide advise to Congress and White House; Not anymore; They've never served a day in uniform; no nothing about being a Soldier, a leader, especially what it takes to be a Combat Arms Soldier, SF, Ranger, etc! But they seem to have all the answers and solutions!
My thoughts and concerns are, what will they come up with next....and then when the bullets begin flying in the next battle, how many Soldiers will die because of stupid political-military decisions. Haven't we seen enough of that over the last 10 years with many decisions made from within the D.C. Beltway, instead of by Commanders and leaders on the ground leading those Soldiers, NCOs, and Jr. Officers out their fighting for their lives and this country. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/10/09/three-women-have-applied-to-be-army-ranger-school-advisers.html
Three Dozen Women Have Applied to be Army Ranger School Advisers
More than three dozen women have applied to be advisers at the U.S. Army's elite Ranger School so far, an official said.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google