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For those not staying up on current events, the American Legion has called for Sec Shinseki to resign from his position as the head of the VA.
The VA released a statement rejecting the AL's call for his job and the President released his own statement saying he still backs Shinseki.
All this started over the 40 Veterans that died in Arizona. These deaths may be releated to the delays in care and a "secret list" of Veterans to wait for treatment.
With all the negative news flying around, is it time for a change at the top or are all these matters something that that the regional directors need to take responsibility over?
The VA released a statement rejecting the AL's call for his job and the President released his own statement saying he still backs Shinseki.
All this started over the 40 Veterans that died in Arizona. These deaths may be releated to the delays in care and a "secret list" of Veterans to wait for treatment.
With all the negative news flying around, is it time for a change at the top or are all these matters something that that the regional directors need to take responsibility over?
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 27
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The regional directors are to blame, but as our political leaders and media have taught us the guy at the top is responsible for the action(s) of their underlings. So, yes the BGiC should be held responsible and it wouldn't hut my feeling if the President himself was also held to task.
Many VETS have died due to these actions. Where are the murder charges? Oh wait these were just old vets long past their prime. To all you active duty folks out there, this is what you get to look forward to.
Many VETS have died due to these actions. Where are the murder charges? Oh wait these were just old vets long past their prime. To all you active duty folks out there, this is what you get to look forward to.
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When you're in charge, and the failure is this great, he SHOULD resign or his resignation should be requested by the President. Apparently a General's retirement isn't enough to live on, so he will probably have to stay. The President doesn't seem willing to hold anyone accountable for these drastic failures.
BTW, the Regional Directors that perpetrated this fraud or allowed it to go ahead should ALSO be fired. Remember "Safety Stand-down" When something smells, raise your hand, address it, fix it and move on. What's going on in this government?
It's a big difference running an Army and running a Government Bureaucracy. In the Military, even a small failure will yield "Not recommended to promote" or a lower peer ranking, thus ending a young / mid-grade officer's career. Going into the federal system, it seems like it takes an act of Congress to get someone fired for failing.
BTW, the Regional Directors that perpetrated this fraud or allowed it to go ahead should ALSO be fired. Remember "Safety Stand-down" When something smells, raise your hand, address it, fix it and move on. What's going on in this government?
It's a big difference running an Army and running a Government Bureaucracy. In the Military, even a small failure will yield "Not recommended to promote" or a lower peer ranking, thus ending a young / mid-grade officer's career. Going into the federal system, it seems like it takes an act of Congress to get someone fired for failing.
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Most definitely he needs to resign but the directors need to be held accountable. If he doesn't then he should be criminally held liable.
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No he shouldn't resign unless he doesn't openly and aggressively address the problem. I have yet to see anything come down to see it yet. I hope so. And fortunately haven't had to use the VA system. But after what I have seen the last few years it scares me to death(no pun intended). Travesty that people would stoop so low to treat veterans regardless of their claims this way.
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In uniform we are held accountable for the actions of those under our command. As leaders we are responsible for implementing policies and controls as well as monitoring that those policies are carried out. I also think that his resignation would have been called for under most if not all previous administrations.
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As of 2008 there were 278,000 VA employees when the Secretary first took over. He spent two years listening to problems, then began to make changes, and course corrections. How many people, especially mired in illegal policies and procedures, have had to be retrained and new systems implemented? How many could any one of us directly control or know?
I have listened to the Secretary many times - he is a visionary and has an incredible commitment to us veterans. And he inherited a god-awful mess. I am apolitical - but this administration increased VA funding by almost 50%, and the Secretary opened the doors to veterans needing treatment for GWI by going against the combined mis-advice of the VA and DoD medical research people, and promptly had 1,000,000 new applications. He accepted a huge responsibility when he took on the job, and he deserves a salute and a grateful thanks from us all despite the continuing shortfalls.
If you are going to make judgments, make sure you understand what you are judging.
I have listened to the Secretary many times - he is a visionary and has an incredible commitment to us veterans. And he inherited a god-awful mess. I am apolitical - but this administration increased VA funding by almost 50%, and the Secretary opened the doors to veterans needing treatment for GWI by going against the combined mis-advice of the VA and DoD medical research people, and promptly had 1,000,000 new applications. He accepted a huge responsibility when he took on the job, and he deserves a salute and a grateful thanks from us all despite the continuing shortfalls.
If you are going to make judgments, make sure you understand what you are judging.
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SSG (Join to see)
Your arguing th esame way the President did in the second term elections.....its not my fault it is the President before me 8yrs ago's fault what could i possibly accomplish in the first term. He took over VA long before 2008 and had his sites set on it prior to the wars...So protect him with your words however if it was your Loved one I am sure your opinion would be different. He was a great leader and was an outstanding mentor while in the U.S. Army; but times have changed and focus was lost and that is why this situation has occured...no accountability and cooking books.. At what point does a public figure accept responsibility of what he supervises. If a Soldier gets hurt regardless how it is the Leaders fault for not properly addressing hazards or making sure CRM is lowered why is it different for this guy?
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SGT Craig Northacker
Secretary Shinseki was appointed when Obama was elected President, and not confirmed and sworn in until 2009. It is unfortunate that you are equating taking over a massively dysfunctional organization, seeing why it is dysfunctional, and then working through the myriad level of politics, incompetence, unions, and employee resistance with running a squad or a platoon. It is not my fault either, and I have been disabled since 1976. But is is my responsibility now to help my younger veterans. I have spent over $ 2 million over the last 8 years to make a difference, and have had to deal with an enormous amount of stupidity - the same that the Secretary has to deal with - except he gets to answer to a dysfunctional Congress. I have had many bad experiences at the VA in the past, but under the this Secretary there have been extraordinary strides. Are there problems? You bet. do they still piss me off? Absolutely! Have they violated a ton of laws in the process? More than I can count - but when I see a substantive difference in the approach of the medical personnel, and a major adjustment of attitude, and being privy to a host of other enormous improvements behind the scenes, then I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water. Working with the system to improve it and learning when to challenge it in other ways is a function of patient learning, horrendous abuse, working through my anger, and then learning programs that can work.
My wife lost me for ten years because of my disabilities and treatment issues, but stayed with me. I am that loved one, SSG, but I am old enough to understand how to push to make changes because of what I went through. I hope one day you will understand how much goes into what happens on a much larger scale with politics, funding issues, unions, traditionally immoral policies, illegal practices, and bad attitudes. If you were in his position, what would you do?
My wife lost me for ten years because of my disabilities and treatment issues, but stayed with me. I am that loved one, SSG, but I am old enough to understand how to push to make changes because of what I went through. I hope one day you will understand how much goes into what happens on a much larger scale with politics, funding issues, unions, traditionally immoral policies, illegal practices, and bad attitudes. If you were in his position, what would you do?
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Secretary Shinseki has made extraordinary strides shaping what was an incredibly dysfunctional VA. He has challenged the status quo - but he still has to contend with those who are entrenched as civilian employees and who may not be doing the right thing. I watched the local television feed on the answers by the Miami director with respect to the death a year ago of a young vet in rehab - who died because of a drug overdose. He accepted zero responsibility for the lousy protocols and standards that directly led to this young man's premature death. I am reasonably certain that the Secretary was apoplectic when he was given this information.
The Secretary recently requested the ability to remove people without extended negotiations for cause. When those people fail the veterans, they fail at their job and would be summarily dismissed if they worked for me. But in the government they protest - and how many people that they wronged were hurt or died? Who gets held accountable then?
Keep Secretary Shinseki. American Legion - why do they want him gone? I don't think it is the 40 vets-I think there are a bunch of folks being held accountable by the Secretary under the proposed laws that are behind this. And the call for him to resign is an outrage. Just the way the former AL economic development director challenged me as to which unit was the toughest in Viet Nam, but had no answers regarding the real question I had for him - what was the economic development program that the AL had? The answer in a word was none. But that individual was positive that he was in the toughest unit. I wasted a thousand bucks on that trip.
Secretary Shinseki - keep up the good work!
The Secretary recently requested the ability to remove people without extended negotiations for cause. When those people fail the veterans, they fail at their job and would be summarily dismissed if they worked for me. But in the government they protest - and how many people that they wronged were hurt or died? Who gets held accountable then?
Keep Secretary Shinseki. American Legion - why do they want him gone? I don't think it is the 40 vets-I think there are a bunch of folks being held accountable by the Secretary under the proposed laws that are behind this. And the call for him to resign is an outrage. Just the way the former AL economic development director challenged me as to which unit was the toughest in Viet Nam, but had no answers regarding the real question I had for him - what was the economic development program that the AL had? The answer in a word was none. But that individual was positive that he was in the toughest unit. I wasted a thousand bucks on that trip.
Secretary Shinseki - keep up the good work!
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SSG Genaro Negrete
What extraordinary strides are you referring to? This isn't some sarcastic set up for an argument, I don't know what his job entails in order to even guess at what his improvements have been.
I can only imagine the dense bureaucracy Secretary Shinseki must have to deal with in order to affect change. He's well into his sixth year in this assignment. Is the system that bloated that he can't make progress in this relatively short amount of time? The tragic deaths of those 40 patients not withstanding, how many other problems are there with the VA system? What about the seemingly simple idea that the VA use the same patient documentation software that the active military uses? I'm not naive enough to think it's as simple as uploading new software.
Secretary Shinseki served as a military officer for many decades. I imagine he would understand that as a commissioned officer in command, he was responsible for everything his unit did AND failed to do.
I vaguely remember something about the VA department maintaining funding in the face of budget cuts, yet still unable to streamline or even improve it's functional areas.
If it's more help Secretary Shinseki needs, then by all means, lets get this going. If he needs to be able to fire under-performers in a more expedient manner, then lets get it done.
However, at what point do we stop scrutinizing the engine and look at the driver? Will a solid decade on the job be long enough to cast doubt on the Secretary?
One way or the other, veterans need to be taken care of. The "status quo" is still not enough.
I can only imagine the dense bureaucracy Secretary Shinseki must have to deal with in order to affect change. He's well into his sixth year in this assignment. Is the system that bloated that he can't make progress in this relatively short amount of time? The tragic deaths of those 40 patients not withstanding, how many other problems are there with the VA system? What about the seemingly simple idea that the VA use the same patient documentation software that the active military uses? I'm not naive enough to think it's as simple as uploading new software.
Secretary Shinseki served as a military officer for many decades. I imagine he would understand that as a commissioned officer in command, he was responsible for everything his unit did AND failed to do.
I vaguely remember something about the VA department maintaining funding in the face of budget cuts, yet still unable to streamline or even improve it's functional areas.
If it's more help Secretary Shinseki needs, then by all means, lets get this going. If he needs to be able to fire under-performers in a more expedient manner, then lets get it done.
However, at what point do we stop scrutinizing the engine and look at the driver? Will a solid decade on the job be long enough to cast doubt on the Secretary?
One way or the other, veterans need to be taken care of. The "status quo" is still not enough.
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CPT (Join to see)
I use a common analogy to describe what officals deal with when taking over office and assuming the task of cleaning up the prior administration's mess.
It takes your kids 5 seconds to destroy thier room, but it takes all day long to clean it back up.
The same goes for the presidency. Shinseki took over an administration that had gone on unchallenged for nearly a decade. His improvements wont happen overnight.
That being said, I do recognize that there is a serious problem with gross neglect and a serious lack of accountability within the VA system.
It takes your kids 5 seconds to destroy thier room, but it takes all day long to clean it back up.
The same goes for the presidency. Shinseki took over an administration that had gone on unchallenged for nearly a decade. His improvements wont happen overnight.
That being said, I do recognize that there is a serious problem with gross neglect and a serious lack of accountability within the VA system.
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SGT Craig Northacker
Gentlemen-thank you for your comments-as you are both quite accurate in your observations and expectations. I started Vets-Help in 2007. Our first project was to challenge the status quo of the DoD and VA in denying the existence of GWI. I was furious when the VA privately told me that over 50,000 Gulf War I had died prematurely, with hundreds of thousands more at risk - yet GWI was officially denied. Congress was fed up with the stonewalling and commissioned its' own commission in 2006, which submitted a report in 2008 to Congress stating that GWI was alive and should be treated. This was the same time that General Shinseki was appointed as Secretary. The corrupt medical research people at the VA and DoD issued a denial of the report a few months later, whereupon the Secretary stated unequivocally that notwithstanding the DoD and VA denials, the VA would treat GWI as real, and he opened the doors for veterans to make claims - ironically, that caused the backlog. The VA researcher stopped working for the VA after that. what the Secretary did was to throw out the rubberstamp denials of legitimate claims under the law. There are still a ton of improvements that need to be made. i have spoken with top executives that he has told to make the program work or else, and they bust their tails for him. I first experienced the VA in 1977 - there is no comparison.
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