Posted on Jan 14, 2014
SPC Robert Patrick
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<p>I have been in the Army for 4 and a half years.&nbsp; In those 4 and a half years I have noticed that married soldiers seem(and&nbsp;I put the emphasis on seem) to be listened too more than the&nbsp;single soldiers.&nbsp; There are the unit FRG programs and garrison level ones as well.&nbsp; I have&nbsp;been an advocate participant in B.O.S.S.(Better Opportunities for Single Soldiers) in those 4 years.&nbsp; It has always seemed to me&nbsp;that a married soldier was more likely to get a marriage retreat approved than a single soldier.&nbsp; Even&nbsp;as former VP of the Fort Detrick BOSS Committee and Unit representative it seems&nbsp;like if an event is geared towards families then&nbsp;Units push it and encourage married soldiers to attend but if it&nbsp;is an event for single soldiers there does not&nbsp;seem to be much emphasis put on it.&nbsp;&nbsp;I have had Soldiers be told they couldn't do certain events that may happen during the duty day but there are marriage retreats people go on and they take up duty days as well.&nbsp; <br><br>It seems to me that though&nbsp;the Army took steps to correct starting with the implementation of BOSS&nbsp;in 1989 it still does receive as much support from unit CoCs as family events do.&nbsp; <br><br>Any thoughts?&nbsp; Do you agree or disagree?&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>****I know I messed up the title*****</p>
Posted in these groups: United states army logo Army51fb41ec FRG
Edited >1 y ago
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LTC Program Manager
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In my opinion most military rules were written years ago when most Soldiers lived in the barracks and few were married.  Today Single soldiers do more work for less pay.  My recommendation is to pay every Soldier BAH w/dependents and deduct the fair market value of their housing (I'm thinking the fair market value of a shared room with common bathroom wouldn't be very much).  This move alone would put more single NCOs in the barracks because it would mean more cash in their pocket.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SFC William Swartz Jr
>1 y
I disagree wholeheartedly with the pay everyone BAH w/dependents idea, it's bad enough when as a married Soldier living on post that I as a SFC (since retired) payed more money for the same housing as the SPC/SGT/SSG that lived next door to me. Yes I know the answer, then move off-post, but how can it be justified to pay a Soldier the same amount for the barracks, where they may "pocket cash" when their peer in on-post housing "loses" the entirety of there BAH? Just my opinion on that whole proposal.
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SGT(P) Team Leader
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I'm almost 30 and i live in the barracks. Luckily bein an NCO, I don't have to worry about a random roommate ( I get my own room ). I despise being in the barracks because I'm surrounded by young soldiers, including one of my soldiers. I do believe the things we deal with are unfair but at the same time some of the people that live in the barracks aren't the brightest.
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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
SGT Jarret.   I think money becomes the issue in this and if certain NCOICs did not make it their personal playground.   Some 1st Sgt get this and I think what they do is good with the younger troop.   Lord knows many need instruction,  structure and discipline.    So those off-base dwellers should have to be part of GI parties in the dorm.  Make them appreciate not being treated as 'animals' as one has called them.
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SSG (ret) William Martin
>1 y
I got out of the Army in 2004 because I got tired of nonsense and other BS in the barracks. I told my 1SG I did not want
to be bothered about the barracks when I was not at work. There is a CQ and it is his or her job to take "charge of quarters" as their resposibility on their shift.
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SSG Conex
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>1 y

Shift workers get the shaft in most ways.  The problem with shift workers is that leaders do not understand how to prioritize the many different events that we undergo during a typical month.  How can leaders schedule APFTs, Weapon Qual ranges, mandatory training, UAs, and many more so it is fair to everyone involved.  It is easy for 1SG to say lets have Suicide Prevention training on this Wednesday at 1000.  1SG fails to realize that Wednesday is Shift Worker B's Saturday.  Shift Worker B comes in on "Saturday" because it is required becuase he has to complete training.

 

If leaders took the time to say would I want to come in on Saturday to complete training?  The answer would be a no, and I know the arguement is we are Soldiers 24/7 (check, got ya) but why does that arguement only come up when it makes a Soldiers life difficult? 

 

A better solution is to offer the training around the Soldiers shifts, that way it only causes pain to one person (the trainer).  This also keeps morale in the unit under control.

 

Although the marriage retreats seem like the married folks are getting a pass to get out of work but these are usually conducted over an entire weekend.  I have also seen Single Soldier retreats but for some reason they were not successful.  Why were they not successful?  Because Single Soldiers do not like giving up their weekends.  If a program is not being used then it will be taken away.  It is not discrimination to the single Soldiers, it is more why offer (fork over money) for 1 or 2 Soldiers that will attend as opposed to offering a marriage retreat where 5 or 6 Sodliers will attend with their spouse. 

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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
9 y
I worked all three shifts each week and it is especially annoying where unit commanders think they need to do this. Our weather commander (at my asking) stopped it for weather people and did it when they wanted to and saved the poor shifting working dormer.
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SGT Information Technology Specialist
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SPC Bobchin,


This is all my personal opinion, but, lets look at the average across the Army. A majority of single Soldiers are 18-21 years...barely old enough to drink. Soldiers of a young age or maturity level tend to be more unruly. Soldiers are treated like children because most of the time, they act as so. I don't have enough hands to count the number of times I've walked through the barracks to see trash in the hall, laundry rooms in disarray, Soldiers rooms are messy, have excuses as to why their room is not to standard, etc., and this is all during the work week, lets not even talk about the weekend! Granted, there ARE Soldiers who NEED housing inspections because some of these Soldiers who are married behave as if they live in the barracks, but, I believe that if you decide to make the decision to get married, that's a "grown up" decision..therefore, the Army gives you "grown up" privileges. Not saying that single Soldiers aren't grown, but Im simply speaking on the decision to get married. I believe that the inequality exists because being single and being married is not equal. I hope this gives you some sort of guidance! Good post!

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SGT(P) Team Leader
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>1 y
That's the primary reason a lot of soldiers get contract marriages. So they don't have to deal with the stupidity of living in the barracks

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Should single and married Soldiers be treated differently?
SSG Robert Burns
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We have inspections because it's a federal building. &nbsp;And if you've lived in the barracks you know exactly what some soldiers can do to a room. &nbsp;I've seen it all, short of going at it with a bull dozer. &nbsp;Because of the high population of young folk who are on their own for the first time and still have much to learn in responsibility is why there is such a heavy presence there.<div>Married folk are at home with their family and don't have 300 people living in the same building as them. &nbsp;There aren't going to be parties every week when your kids live with you.</div>
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SPC Stephen Bobchin
SPC Stephen Bobchin
>1 y
I have seen some bad barracks rooms, but I've also seen some housing that was even worse. &nbsp;And isn't on-post housing also considered federal property?
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SSG (ret) William Martin
SSG (ret) William Martin
9 y
Family housing can be technically federally owned but managed by a contractor. In family housing the leader can't come over anything they want. You are dealing with civilians as well.
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GySgt (Other / Not listed)
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Ahhh the barracks, I loved them days having three boots to a room and when one showered, the other mopped.  With all that money from the recent conflicts, the Corps has all new barracks just about everywhere and Marines are still complaining.  If the lance creatures kept their rooms squared away and the NCO's living in the barracks enforced regulations and owned that building like it's their own purchased property, there would be no need to be baby-sat by SNCO's like myself.
It's only a few that cause problems in the barracks that forces the rules like Lance Corporals and below rate a 6 pack, Corporals 12 pack, and Sergeants 24 packs, with nobody allowed to have hard liquor.  Majority of young men live in the barracks, majority of older men live out of the barracks, the quality of life will be different.  
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CSM Charles Hayden
CSM Charles Hayden
9 y
SSgt Cullen Fair, My complaint is that Camp Pendleton no longer has Quonsets. If they had saved 1 Quonset for display purposes, today's Marine might appreciate their current quarters and head facilities!

Yep, another old-timer saying how it used to be!
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CSM Infantry Senior Sergeant
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That's very tough Patrick because good BOSS reps coordinate functions like car washes and BBQs to raise funds to assist single soldiers in conducting functions. There in lies the problem. In order to raise funds it takes single soldiers volunteering their time off and services and of course majority of those funds assist in lowering costs but not paying for functions out right. Same thing goes for unit FRGs assisting in raising funds through bake sales etc to raise funds to throw company functions like BBQs. It takes volunteers to make things happen and raise the money needed to meet the activity goal they are saving funds for. 
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SPC Robert Patrick
SPC Robert Patrick
>1 y
I understand that 1SG.  We run a few Fund Raisers on Fort Detrick and we have funds alloted to us from DA for BOSS Events which we also use to reduce the cost and at times pay full cost for the single soldiers.  The issues we run into is that we don't get much support for the few events we have during the week which are community events such as visiting veterans homes and volunteer events we cooridinate with habitat for humanity for.  There are soldiers who want to be able to get out there and serve the community one of the 3 Pilliars of BOSS but the answer the soldier constantly get is there is not enough man power or you should be doing this on your free time but married Soldiers will get marriage retreats approved or if they need something taken care of the CoC seem more involved than if a single soldier needs something.
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LTC Jason Bartlett
LTC Jason Bartlett
>1 y


I am assuming when you say "you don’t get enough
support" you are referring to your CoC, otherwise I assume your peers
(single Soldiers) do not want to get involved. Regardless it sounds like a leadership issue within your CoC. Where is your senior military advisor (typically installation CSM)and what has he done to rectify the issue you are having?



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SPC Robert Patrick
SPC Robert Patrick
>1 y
At garrison Level the CSM is all for the BOSS program it is at the individual unit levels that the CoC is not as supportive.
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LTC Jason Bartlett
LTC Jason Bartlett
>1 y
Most command teams are very supportive of the BOSS program I would suggest talking with your CoC (make an office call) about your concerns. If it falls on deaf ears I would address this with your BOSS Senior Military Advisor. Most likely he will get the situation rectified.
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SFC James Baber
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Edited >1 y ago

SPC,


I can tell you from experience about some of your concerns. The issue with there not being more events for single Soldiers is that a majority, based on studies and survey conducted at all installations pre-9/11 and in the last decade have shown that the active participants are so low that it is not financially viable or feasible compared to marriage retreats and participants.


2nd, most Soldiers that do complain about not being able to participate have disciplinary issues or use the event to just get out of work and not actively participate or even show up for the event, this has been shown to be a large majority of problem for years.


I applaud you on being the representative you have been and contributing to the program and pursuing more activities, but I would also encourage you to be an advocate for getting more participation from your fellow single SMs, which will also show the command that there are more Soldiers looking to and willing to participate in recommended events or activities. CDRs do conduct research and look for recommendations and suggestions from COC and single Soldiers for these types of issues, but they many times receive little input from the ones that complain about the issues but also are unwilling to commit and participate when the opportunity does present itself.


Hope this helps to explain and give you an idea of what occurs and what can be done and what you may be able to do to help and continue to do what you do as well.

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MSG Visual Information Operations Chief
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I lived in the barracks
and never was bother with inspections only once a week on Mondays. My first
line gave me that breathing room because I never made him look bad when my room
was inspected. Even when unannounced my room was orderly and clean. However,
some of my section battles did not have that privilege because they could care
less about having their rooms in order.  



 



 



 



 

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SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
SSgt (Join to see)
>1 y
Those same troops will lapse into their old ways while a few actually do get something of it.   Meaning that far too many will have a sloppy house invariably.   For those less than motivated then let them eat cake.   They made their bed (or not) and will have to lie in it, both figuratively and literally.
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SGT Power Generation Equipment Repairer
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I agree with you all the way except for the cq part. Barrack soldiers tend to party like college students in the barracks and do A LOT of stupid things on the weekends. So they need to keep cq. But yeah it sucks for single soldiers, depending where you stationed, have to share a closet size room with a room mate and have limited alcohol. And I've seen plenty of disgusting married soldiers houses. But most on post housing is ran by civilian companies. So what ever damage there is, the soldier most pay.
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SGT Andrew Chapman
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I was a married soldier as a E1 and I know its been over 20 yrs but my NCO's would come by the house and inspect to see that it was clean and in order. Then as I progressed in rank I was charged with the care of soldiers that I had in the barracks and off post. I did my best to treat each of them fair and I did inspect. I would not want my single soldier living in a room that was unhealthy nor did I want my married soldier living in a house that was not healthy for him and his dependents. I do agree some of the regs and methods seem bias, But its up to each person to take pride in them self the service they have chosen and do what is right. I am sure there are plenty that disagree with me but its like did you parents just let you live in a mess or did they make you clean it. It is your space to live but its not your house.
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SFC William Swartz Jr
>1 y
Never in my 26 years have I ever 'inspected' a married Soldiers on-post or off-post housing for cleanliness unless there was a concern brought by someone out of comcern for the family. As an NCO, I have been charged to take a look at the off-post housing of younger Soldiers to ensure that they are living in a place that is not condemned as that has been the case in some instances. As the Army progressed in the later '90s and 2000's, it became "taboo" to do this and became more of a "legal" thing as the Soldier's viewed this as an invasion of their privacy.
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