Posted on Feb 1, 2017
MSgt George Cater
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What say you? Make it clear and unambiguous. One possible text:

"The right of the people to defend themselves, their property and their Nation being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
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Responses: 492
SFC George Smith
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LOL... I've had a Concealed carry for 37 years and the 2nd amendment does not need any changes... Just a class for Progressives and Liberals To Understand what it means and Why i't there... but most are too inept and will never be able to Understand its Complexities...
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
7 y
Oh, I think they understand the 2nd Amendment quite well. They just don't want to accept it.
That non-acceptance leads, in turn, to the most unjustifiable, illogical, outlandish, even ridiculous "interpretations" of the 2nd Amendment imaginable.
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GySgt Craig Averill
GySgt Craig Averill
6 y
I have had a Concealed Carry permit my entire life it is the 2nd Amendment where I have a RIGHT to KEEP and BEAR ARMS. Our RIGHTS are God Given and are not Government Issued.
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CW3 Joseph Antosiak
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No, and in fact there should be no need. US courts up to and including SCOTUS have routinely delivered opinions on 18th-century laws that all say essentially the same thing: this is how laws were written back then, and a prefatory phrase does not change the meaning of the basic sentence. In short, if the framers wanted the 2d amendment to apply only to the militia, they would have said "The right of members of a well-regulated Militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".
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CW3 Harvey K.
CW3 Harvey K.
7 y
Exactly. As I have pointed out, there is no need for a Constitutional amendment concerned with the individual "rights of the people" to include the authorization of a kind of army, a "Militia", to be armed when there is no authorization anywhere in the Constitution for the army Congress is authorized to raise to be manned by armed troops.
The fact that all armies, "regular" or "militia" are "armed forces" is implicit. It certainly does not require an amendment in the Bill of Rights to state the obvious.
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GySgt Craig Averill
GySgt Craig Averill
6 y
"A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
- George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

"I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

"...the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone..."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance ofpower is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves."
- Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War" in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

"For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

"[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."
- Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

"As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
- Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
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It's only confusing to Democrats and liberals.
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PO2 Steven Hardy
PO2 Steven Hardy
7 y
MCPO Roger Collins - The separation between Liberals and Democrats could be that many Democrats are hacks, and do not actually believe in liberalism. They just use it for their own corrupt purposes.
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MCPO Roger Collins
MCPO Roger Collins
7 y
PO2 Steven Hardy - To be fair, we have to look at the negotiations going on in the Republican Party on Repeal and Replace effort. All that is going on is politics, as usual. What is my vote worth? There is where the parties are very similar.
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PO2 Steven Hardy
PO2 Steven Hardy
7 y
It only makes sense that hacks would take advantage of the increasingly vocal conservatives to advance themselves too.
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
TSgt Kenneth Ellis
7 y
I know the Republicans are becoming Democrat light. And the Democrats are showing there true colors.
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CPT Aaron Kletzing
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legal gun owners are not the problem
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CWO3 Retired
CWO3 (Join to see)
>1 y
Well stated. Legal gun Owners are not the problem most of time, but it's the idiot that want to harm someone else is the cause.
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SGT Tony Clifford
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The wording is perfect. Paraphrased to better fit today's lexicon it says, because we need to have a military for national defense, we must allow the populace to have arms to defend against that same military.

Now the constitution had to state the need for a military for obvious reasons, but the founders had just fought a war against what used to be the army of their country. They recognized that their government could become just as oppressive as the one they just fought against, so they included a right that allows the citizen the means to resist oppression.
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COL John McClellan
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Absolutely not!
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Sgt Martin Querin
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Gun laws are not about making people safe, they are about neutering the citizens of this nation and making it possible to turn them into the Eloi from H.G. Wells book The Time Machine.
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
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Edited 7 y ago
I agree with those saying leave it alone. Please note the military was established to take on our enemies out side the USA. However if an enemy ever took a foot hold on / within the United States, then it would be Armed Americans who would opposes such an enemy. And a well regulated / today's terms co-ordinated militia will be American citizens stepping forward to rebuff / resist such an enemy.
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SPC Don Wynn
SPC Don Wynn
7 y
Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D. - Private citizens with firearms would be a factor, but not a primary one. Again, it's logistics, keeping an invading force supplied and fed that would be a major factor. Then would be our rather large contingent of retired veterans and inactive reserves, all with some basic firearms training.
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PO1 Michael Garrett
PO1 Michael Garrett
7 y
SPC Don Wynn - Our enemies understand this. It makes no sense to invade the US. China, with its manpower could not do it. Russia with its technology could not do it. Together they would not succeed. It would be simpler to chase the US from the world stage. Force our Navy and our commerce to retreat from the areas they wish to control.
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Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
Maj Bill Smith, Ph.D.
7 y
After reading many comments, we must consider the fact that the wording in the Constitution & its amendments are not at issue. At issue is the failure of schools to teach the complete Constitution -- not their biased opinions let alone ignoring to to teach the original intent of the Constitution as determined (written about) by our forefathers. Tyranny comes in many forms and is not necessarily from a force outside the U.S. Our forefathers understood this completely. In fact, they didn't even fully trust each other to be faithful in defending freedom and in avoidiing tyranny by their (our) government which they had established. While they saw a need for a Navy directed outward against other Nations harrassing American merchant ships , they avoided establishing an U.S. Army out of fear of it being used against its own citizens by its oun Government.
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SPC Don Wynn
SPC Don Wynn
7 y
PO1 Michael Garrett - And even that would be difficult given our naval strength and economic standing.
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Kurtis Roers
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It's only confusing to over-educated idiots.
Sorry to be so harsh, but it's not that hard to understand. It took the modern educational system a long time to produce people too dumb to be able to understand it.
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GySgt Craig Averill
GySgt Craig Averill
6 y
The Constitution is a LEGAL and BINDING CONTRACT among the Sovereign States and is NOT a Living Document by any stretch of the imagination, no more than your mortgage Contract is. Because all the Sovereign States have signed this CONTRACT it is known as a COMPACT.

Our RIGHTS are GOD GIVEN and non negotiable. Our Centralized Government was INSTITUTED to DEFEND and SECURE our RIGHTS, end of story.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. "

""On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823"
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SCPO Lonny Randolph
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The one single element in a lot of these threads that makes me twitch the most is the notion that the Supreme Court of the United States's job is to "interpret" the Constitution. The document is quite clear and doesn't need "interpretation". One uses an interpreter to help one understand something written or spoken in some other language. The SCOTUS's only job is to decide whether or not a given law is compliant with the Constitution. Anything beyond that is ACTIVISM... Nothing but love tho...
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MSgt George Cater
MSgt George Cater
7 y
Excellent true point.
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GySgt Craig Averill
GySgt Craig Averill
6 y
WOW! so great to know there are others out there who actually understand the Constitution. The SCOTUS has assumed authority they are not DELEGATED to have and have breached their oaths by so doing. Article III is their Job Description and is quite clear what it is. They need to read it. Also Judges DO NOT RULE, they can only ISSUE OPINIONS, as Kings Rule and the Court is not a LAW MAKING BRANCH of GOVERNMENT regardless what they would want you to think. We need to exercise Article VI more often as Article VI Clause II states "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding."

Only LAWS made in PURSUANCE of the Constitution are LAWS and the Judges are bound to the Supreme Law of the land, making Article III the SCOTUS job description.

Article III.
Section. 1.

The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office.
Section. 2.

The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;—to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;—to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;—to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;—to Controversies between two or more States;— between a State and Citizens of another State,—between Citizens of different States,—between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Section. 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
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SSG Daniel Brewster
SSG Daniel Brewster
5 y
Excellent point.
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