Posted on May 7, 2016
Should the Army do away with Patches and go to one universal Symbol like the Marines EGA?
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As a Recruiter I have had insight on the Army Branding, and marketing Team for USAREC. We are getting beat by the Marines when it comes to image. The patches make civilians ask what do you do in the Army, on the flip side when a civilian sees a Marine no questions needed to be asked, whats your thoughts
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 530
No. it signifies units, Bn.s Divisions, all part of a proud heritage.
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The very idea of unit legacies and histories can be traced back as far as the Roman legions under Augustus who flat out refused to give up their numbers and standards in the face of restructuring due to the deeds they did in combat.
In our modern day, there's no better way for a Soldier to display who he/she served with in combat situations than by being able to wear a patch which signifies that service. For me, it's the 4th ID. The 4th ID also took part in the D-Day Landings and major operations in Vietnam. I'm no longer in the 4th, but I proudly wear that as my combat patch even though I'm authorized 1/2 others.
I don't think having a number of patches on is a bad thing at all. It makes it easier to identify other members of your unit; it stands for a legacy that others built before you and others will inherit after you; and it is a symbol of pride for those who care.
We are not the Marines and the Marines are not us. Let us not devolve into a veritable fashion contest and in so doing make motions toward wiping away collective unit history in an attempt to "look cool."
Some final notes:
1) I like being able to quickly distinguish who has been downrange and who hasn't.
2) As another poster suggested - having civilians ask questions about my uniform is a good thing in my eyes. It keeps me sharp on what all the lettuce means and provides easy talking points which might net further Soldiers for the Army.
In our modern day, there's no better way for a Soldier to display who he/she served with in combat situations than by being able to wear a patch which signifies that service. For me, it's the 4th ID. The 4th ID also took part in the D-Day Landings and major operations in Vietnam. I'm no longer in the 4th, but I proudly wear that as my combat patch even though I'm authorized 1/2 others.
I don't think having a number of patches on is a bad thing at all. It makes it easier to identify other members of your unit; it stands for a legacy that others built before you and others will inherit after you; and it is a symbol of pride for those who care.
We are not the Marines and the Marines are not us. Let us not devolve into a veritable fashion contest and in so doing make motions toward wiping away collective unit history in an attempt to "look cool."
Some final notes:
1) I like being able to quickly distinguish who has been downrange and who hasn't.
2) As another poster suggested - having civilians ask questions about my uniform is a good thing in my eyes. It keeps me sharp on what all the lettuce means and provides easy talking points which might net further Soldiers for the Army.
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SSG Shauna Holmes
My question, do you ever feel someone who doesn't have a patch was avoiding deployment (as assumed when it's a woman)?
Because I was assigned to units that recently redeployed OR PCSd from a unit the deployed within six months.
Because I was assigned to units that recently redeployed OR PCSd from a unit the deployed within six months.
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Who is even thinking of this? During my 21 years, I wore many patches and am proud to have served with every unit. When I see another soldier with a patch that I have worn, I can immediately have something in common with him or her. When I see someone with a combat patch from a unit I went to combat with, I can always relate to them in a little more special way.
However, throughout my service, I had to reflag the unit I was in a couple times. I always wondered how much it cost to change a division (for an example 24th ID became the 3ID). From multiple shoulder patches and unit crests for each soldier, to repainting signs out front of every building on post, to changing the letterhead on stationary for every company, battalion, brigade on post to repainting the bumper numbers on every vehicle. Just the man hours alone must have been incredible!
The patches in the Army have a history dating to the first world war. Leave our history alone and if someone want to worry about something like this, maybe they should join the USMC so they can just wear the eagle, globe and anchor!
However, throughout my service, I had to reflag the unit I was in a couple times. I always wondered how much it cost to change a division (for an example 24th ID became the 3ID). From multiple shoulder patches and unit crests for each soldier, to repainting signs out front of every building on post, to changing the letterhead on stationary for every company, battalion, brigade on post to repainting the bumper numbers on every vehicle. Just the man hours alone must have been incredible!
The patches in the Army have a history dating to the first world war. Leave our history alone and if someone want to worry about something like this, maybe they should join the USMC so they can just wear the eagle, globe and anchor!
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No. The Marines find eprit de Corps in being a Marine where Soldiers find esprit de corps in their unit. Having served in both esteemed services, would not change either one.
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Having served in both the Marine Corps and Army, I can make some comparisons. But the question here is about patches. During WWII, the Marine Corps had patches for all its divisions, 1-6 and many others. Why? Because they were no longer a Corps but an Army. That's what happens what you get too big. They dumped the patches after the war. They want the EGA to represent all Marines, which is a misnomer. The EGA represents 0311/grunts, cooks and baker's, and Marine Air (swing with the wing!). So, patches isn't the issue, it's image. But as a former Marine Commandant once said, "Marines win battles, the Army wins wars."
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SSG (Join to see)
Thank you sir, it seems to me that the military today doesnt know their history, if you look at these posts its quite clear that the Marines and Soldiers arent being informed. I always tell soldiers that the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Marine division patch was designed off the WWII patch that the Marines wore, but later discontinued and went with one universal patch, and todays soldiers dont realize this
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CW5 (Join to see)
I would like to add one thing. The Army has far too many patches. Patch designation should be division and higher and therefore more recognizable. I realize there are independent brigades and even lower, but we have the DUI for that. Scale down.
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Sgt Charles Welling
Marines win battles because that is their task, to be the first response point of the spear of projected Naval power.
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Stop asking to copy the Marines, my goodness, what's our Army personnel doing these days.
The Army I knew had pride and treasured our rich traditions and felt espirit de corps for our units.
I love our Army, stop trying to copy the Marines.
They took the Black Beret from Rangers at the turn of this century, so the Army can feel special.
We keep changing the uniform, for what?
If you think you are missing something that the Marines have, sign on with the Marines.
Let's make our Army the Best and have pride in what we do. Stop worrying about what you think looks better. Patches have a vital function in our Army, it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
The Army I knew had pride and treasured our rich traditions and felt espirit de corps for our units.
I love our Army, stop trying to copy the Marines.
They took the Black Beret from Rangers at the turn of this century, so the Army can feel special.
We keep changing the uniform, for what?
If you think you are missing something that the Marines have, sign on with the Marines.
Let's make our Army the Best and have pride in what we do. Stop worrying about what you think looks better. Patches have a vital function in our Army, it's not broken, don't try to fix it.
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SSG (Join to see)
1sg trust me no one is trying to change it, it was a question from a briefing from the Army Marketing and Research group
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While we need to attract high quality new recruits and need to do what it takes to get them, traditions aren't the things we should be changing to do so. That patch isn't just a patch, it's a skill identifier, a unit identifier, a bragging right and most importantly, those patches and their meaning attract soldiers to put in for schools and sometimes even to change their MOS. Our traditions aren't for those who never served, they are for us, we few, who have served, are serving or will serve. I see a soldier with his uniform on and I can say "that young man is in the 82nd, he's a paratrooper, he's been to combat several times, has been commended for something he has done while in, and has been recognized for achievements by his superior NCOs and Commander. That's a paragraph that the average civilian can not say.
Recognition and esprit de corp, they mean something!
Recognition and esprit de corp, they mean something!
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Don't change it. My Berlin patch never needed any explaining. I still have my map bag, and service members could see where I served. Made a great conversational piece when traveling.
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The Army is much bigger than the Marines, and our culture and history are totally different. The Army has many branches and units with their own unique histories and subcultures, and we should embrace that history with pride, not toss it aside to be more like another service. Heck I'd like to see full color unit patches on our ACUs when in garrison (we already wear full color flags, why not?).
Unit patches are a source of pride, and a symbol of our history. Let's keep them.
Unit patches are a source of pride, and a symbol of our history. Let's keep them.
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LCpl (Join to see)
To build off of your initial statement, the Marine Corps and the Army also operate as two fundamentally different entities. The way the Marines are set up it isn't feasible for us to do sustained operations the way the Army can.
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SSG Winkler
B.L.U.F keep the patches that's what makes us the Best Army in the world!! We are not the Marines! As a former recruiter. The issue is not that the Marines are just beating us, but there is also cause and effect on that side of the house. Let's all be honest, we have quotas and theirs nothing wrong with that. I went through "various" changes at my station. Be it legacy, SUR, Pinnicle.....it didn't matter what the new formation was called we just ran it the way we needed to IOT be successful (primarily legacy). Recruiters need to be held liable, they fail to perform after 3 rehabilitative attempts send them back and get someone who wants to be there. Attitude drives everything in recruiting and encompasses both the Art and the Science of it. We need recruiters that make amends with being DA selected and get out there and bust their for 8hrs a day it's not hard. However, this also unachieveble by sitting in an office. Station Commanders need to assign zip codes, school and AOR and kick their recruiters out after IPR NLT 0900hrs. Take the G-Jet and comeback with a minimum of 2 appts, 6 leads and 8 new businesses they had canvassed. A little harsh but that was what expected of me day 1 my first Monday in Delmarva (1st Recruiting Bde) I enjoyed my time out their!
B.L.U.F keep the patches that's what makes us the Best Army in the world!! We are not the Marines! As a former recruiter. The issue is not that the Marines are just beating us, but there is also cause and effect on that side of the house. Let's all be honest, we have quotas and theirs nothing wrong with that. I went through "various" changes at my station. Be it legacy, SUR, Pinnicle.....it didn't matter what the new formation was called we just ran it the way we needed to IOT be successful (primarily legacy). Recruiters need to be held liable, they fail to perform after 3 rehabilitative attempts send them back and get someone who wants to be there. Attitude drives everything in recruiting and encompasses both the Art and the Science of it. We need recruiters that make amends with being DA selected and get out there and bust their for 8hrs a day it's not hard. However, this also unachieveble by sitting in an office. Station Commanders need to assign zip codes, school and AOR and kick their recruiters out after IPR NLT 0900hrs. Take the G-Jet and comeback with a minimum of 2 appts, 6 leads and 8 new businesses they had canvassed. A little harsh but that was what expected of me day 1 my first Monday in Delmarva (1st Recruiting Bde) I enjoyed my time out their!
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SFC David Pratt
Or.... Have retired guys do the recruiting while you younger hero's get back to the fight. The retired guy will probably have more knowledge and fruit salad then a young SSG, and would not be easily pressured to bend his integrity or break rules to accommodate the mission. He would not cave to an over zealous 1SG with zero leadership experience.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Prat
I can say that would be true. Without airing dirty laundry that isn't mine. We have PS retired recruiters before I showed up to the station and their integrity was best described as an ideal rather than a practice. My entire time out their I never had an issue with any of the three 1SGs I had. We just need more invested Soldiers out there. However, the responsibility is on that leader who is at the friction point and he needs to be all about 22-100 (Be, Know, Do) in other words as old school as that manual.
I can say that would be true. Without airing dirty laundry that isn't mine. We have PS retired recruiters before I showed up to the station and their integrity was best described as an ideal rather than a practice. My entire time out their I never had an issue with any of the three 1SGs I had. We just need more invested Soldiers out there. However, the responsibility is on that leader who is at the friction point and he needs to be all about 22-100 (Be, Know, Do) in other words as old school as that manual.
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MAJ L. Nicholas Smith
SFC David Pratt - Not a bad idea and I think we would be more than happy to stand our ground with inept personnel.
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