Posted on May 17, 2016
Should the Army make exceptions to uniform policy based on religious beliefs?
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Responses: 47
If the Army makes exceptions to the uniform policy, then the "uniform" policy will not be uniform. The uniform policy should be call the "Army Dress Code" policy. There are temporary exceptions to the policy and that is as far as it should go, anything else defeats the purpose (and it has as you may have noticed).
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CW2 (Join to see) - Warrant; The implication of not being able to wear a "Pro-Mask" (regardless of why) is that you are likely to die if you should have been wearing one and aren't.
No. soldiers should NOT receive different rates of BAS because of their religions.
No. soldiers should NOT receive different rates of BAS because of their religions.
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SFC (Join to see)
They are aloud to wear them in uniform if you do not know the reg stop with the non sense a lot of you don't meet the army or military standard at all but so quick to down play one cause of a difference chaplains of all religions are represented and just want to serve they country yes I said they country... So grow up to the new world if u don't like it go home... But please stop with the racist shit
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TSgt Kenneth Ellis
SFC (Join to see) - So you are calling me a racist because I made a statement from 1992..
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SFC (Join to see)
TSgt Kenneth Ellis - No I'm saying all these statements are never called you one but those remarks are very bigot like take it how u want
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SPC (Join to see)
TSgt Kenneth Ellis - Making a statement from 1992 requires you to annotate that your statement is from 1992.
This discussion is about the current military, and its accommodations. A lot has changed since '92..... I no longer wear diapers, and computers are now handheld.
Yamakas are plain black or the uniform pattern.
This discussion is about the current military, and its accommodations. A lot has changed since '92..... I no longer wear diapers, and computers are now handheld.
Yamakas are plain black or the uniform pattern.
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This should be simple - we are soldiers here to protect this great nation. We all have our own brand of religion, sexual preference, and other situations.
End of the day it is simple in my mind - we protect, we fight, we kill. An effective fighting unit cannot be worrying more about religious or PC issues.
They have to focus on the task at hand. Everyone is equal and should not get any special preference or money.
I am a Christian - you think it is not difficult for us to grow up turning the other cheek but when it comes to combat, aim, squeeze, fire!
Should we be given something for the rest of our life's for violating and Lord and Savior's commandment.
No, stay out of the pan if you cannot handle the fire!
End of the day it is simple in my mind - we protect, we fight, we kill. An effective fighting unit cannot be worrying more about religious or PC issues.
They have to focus on the task at hand. Everyone is equal and should not get any special preference or money.
I am a Christian - you think it is not difficult for us to grow up turning the other cheek but when it comes to combat, aim, squeeze, fire!
Should we be given something for the rest of our life's for violating and Lord and Savior's commandment.
No, stay out of the pan if you cannot handle the fire!
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Opinions will vary from person to person. This is only the beginning to so many more changes that will come within time with these specific things.
Do I agree with this? No. But I can't speak for anyone else. The military does try to adapt with society, should it? I don't think so, to an extent. The military isn't here to ensure that everyone gets what they want, because everyone won't. There will always be the people that get upset because they don't get what they want. In my opinion, people need to adapt. Something we all learn. Let people have their holidays, let them have veggie MRE's but there is no need to completely change certain regs because people don't want to adapt.
We are soldiers, we are to adapt to any conditions. If they wanted to have all these changes maybe they should have re thought their choices on joining.
Again. This is only an opinion.
Do I agree with this? No. But I can't speak for anyone else. The military does try to adapt with society, should it? I don't think so, to an extent. The military isn't here to ensure that everyone gets what they want, because everyone won't. There will always be the people that get upset because they don't get what they want. In my opinion, people need to adapt. Something we all learn. Let people have their holidays, let them have veggie MRE's but there is no need to completely change certain regs because people don't want to adapt.
We are soldiers, we are to adapt to any conditions. If they wanted to have all these changes maybe they should have re thought their choices on joining.
Again. This is only an opinion.
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No no and no.United states Military United States Uniform,United States Military chow hall,United States Soldier.If you want to live by your culture go back to your country's military because they sure wouldn't let us live up to our culture.
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This is a tough one. Though I feel that a beard should be authorized, obviously still have some kind of standard though, like most people have said this is a volunteer force. There is a standard that has to be met. A standard that should be known ahead of time.
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In Germany in the early 70's, almost all African -American soldiers in my platoon had shaving profiles.
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CPT Earl George
no. But the fact remained that if you were African-American back then, You could easily get a shaving profile. The other platoon members always complained about the African- American soldiers in the platoon not having to shave.
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no way! You knew the rules when you joined. What's the point in having any standards? Or are they just for white, straight, christian males?
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Capt Singh is a hero and maverick. He has more courage than many I see posting in this line. Our military should be a microcosm of the nation it serves with a diverse portion of every race, gender, religion, etc....Ethnocentrism and egocentrism is pervasive in most of the responses. Congrats to SPC Rebecca Ramos for wading into this one so valiantly.
I have mixed feelings, because I get the uniform ideal and not standing out. "Armies do not march in step for exercise." (Beyers 1977:137)
Change creates friction, even when the change is productive and an evolution of the species. From the Trump and Bernie people it is all about the change and the outsider, yet we remain closed minded. Dealing with change is a part of dealing with every part of life. That includes the uniformity of our military appearance. I'm okay with women wearing their hijab, since I had to wear the darn thing in Saudi Arabia.
His appeal was individually addressed. Each change should be handled the same way and Chaplins and Commanders lead the way on ensuring the "team" understands that it is an HONORABLE accommodation. Our military is voluntary and should welcome all those who meet standards.
I have mixed feelings, because I get the uniform ideal and not standing out. "Armies do not march in step for exercise." (Beyers 1977:137)
Change creates friction, even when the change is productive and an evolution of the species. From the Trump and Bernie people it is all about the change and the outsider, yet we remain closed minded. Dealing with change is a part of dealing with every part of life. That includes the uniformity of our military appearance. I'm okay with women wearing their hijab, since I had to wear the darn thing in Saudi Arabia.
His appeal was individually addressed. Each change should be handled the same way and Chaplins and Commanders lead the way on ensuring the "team" understands that it is an HONORABLE accommodation. Our military is voluntary and should welcome all those who meet standards.
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Wow if I had only known, being Catholic I would have asked for Sundays off. Keep holy the Sabbath and what not.
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No. The simple answer is we are an all volunteer military. No one has currently been drafted into military service. It's like when a pacifist enlists and then complains when they have to go to the front lines. No one is asking for your service. We all have to make some form of sacrifice when we join. Some of it is family, friends, personal lifestyle, even the food we eat. There is no justification for making personal exemptions in an all volunteer military.
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I'm all about inclusion. However, there are implications for ever decision we make. The DOD has increased spending to accommodate the new generation, women in combat, And LGBTQ. This would also increase spending as well. These are all good things. However, over the past few years we have kicked out a lot of good people because we needed to save money. How are we able to increase spending on personnel programs , when we are already cash strapped?
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Implications for not being able to wear a protective mask because a beard deny's a proper fit indicates one may die quicker, depending on the agent.
Concessions to accommodate the many different customs of many different religions would be a distraction and hinder mission accomplishment. Adjustments and change should be infrequent as possible,
Concessions to accommodate the many different customs of many different religions would be a distraction and hinder mission accomplishment. Adjustments and change should be infrequent as possible,
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My second post- After reviewing many of the comments here, it seems the majority are in favor of 'NO exceptions' as far as uniform wear. Same as with additional or modified BAS. I do not know of any exceptions granted with since the mid-80's. So the picture above of a very honorably decorated Soldier is no longer valid. He is retired and his grandfathered exception with it. He followed ALL rules. Made requests for waivers as permitted (and granted) by the regulations at the time. I would be honored to shake his hand for his contributions (and others). He was under the understanding that he may have to shave and wear typical uniforms for combat roles and if needed for certain missions. With his earned decoration and apparent level accomplishment he would comply with the needs of the Army. I truly would like to hear what his take is on it.
Many of comments below were enlightening, well written/argued, and even heartfelt but does not change my sentiment of no further exceptions. I will give you a weak analogy: I was grading an APFT. A very good friend missed the run by 3 seconds. He failed. He missed the standard. Some said I was being ridiculous, some applauded me to avoid the perception of favoritism. But it was more than that. Another Soldier missed it at about 8 or 9 seconds. Where do you draw the line? Simple - FM 21-20. Line was already drawn for me. It was up to me to set the example in grading fairly and objective and keeping my emotion and friendships out of it. It is up to the higher paygrades to decide what to make of it. I told my friend I would run with and do whatever it takes so he would be able to pass the test on his own merits and not sympathy. On a different test, I failed my 1SG for doing 'neck-ups' instead of actual pushups. I warned him and then failed him. He put me at parade rest and ordered me to grade him again and insisted on me counting them as correct. I respectfully refused. How am I to set the example if I give in to those who out rank me or my friends or need a 'favor'? One standard and it is already explicit.
What a SM does on their time is their business. Eat what you like, wear what you like, worship as you like, say what you like as long as it does not compromise the values of the military.
Many of comments below were enlightening, well written/argued, and even heartfelt but does not change my sentiment of no further exceptions. I will give you a weak analogy: I was grading an APFT. A very good friend missed the run by 3 seconds. He failed. He missed the standard. Some said I was being ridiculous, some applauded me to avoid the perception of favoritism. But it was more than that. Another Soldier missed it at about 8 or 9 seconds. Where do you draw the line? Simple - FM 21-20. Line was already drawn for me. It was up to me to set the example in grading fairly and objective and keeping my emotion and friendships out of it. It is up to the higher paygrades to decide what to make of it. I told my friend I would run with and do whatever it takes so he would be able to pass the test on his own merits and not sympathy. On a different test, I failed my 1SG for doing 'neck-ups' instead of actual pushups. I warned him and then failed him. He put me at parade rest and ordered me to grade him again and insisted on me counting them as correct. I respectfully refused. How am I to set the example if I give in to those who out rank me or my friends or need a 'favor'? One standard and it is already explicit.
What a SM does on their time is their business. Eat what you like, wear what you like, worship as you like, say what you like as long as it does not compromise the values of the military.
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