Posted on Jun 16, 2015
Should the EIB/EFMB be changed to become a true qualification?
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This came up in another thread about the Unit Commander making everyone remove all badges for training.
Should the EIB/EFMB which is currently a one time event to permanent award of the badge be changed to be more inline with the marksmanship badges where you must re-qualify every X period to maintain the badge and title of "expert"
Being a AF Guy, I have no skin in the game, it came up so I thought I would as RP!
Should the EIB/EFMB which is currently a one time event to permanent award of the badge be changed to be more inline with the marksmanship badges where you must re-qualify every X period to maintain the badge and title of "expert"
Being a AF Guy, I have no skin in the game, it came up so I thought I would as RP!
Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB)
Expert Field Medical Badge EFMB
Badges
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 65
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I received (earned) my EIB in 1986 in Panama. We had 2 battalions of Infantry
, plus Infantrymen from other brigade (193rd Inf Brigade) assets. Also testing with us were SF guys from 3/7SFG. At our awards ceremony, 8 of us were awarded the Expert Infantry Badge. You have no skin in this game, so why bring up an award you know nothing about?
I earned my first Army Achievement Medal for being selected U.S Army South Soldier of the Month. Should I have to recertify for that too?
, plus Infantrymen from other brigade (193rd Inf Brigade) assets. Also testing with us were SF guys from 3/7SFG. At our awards ceremony, 8 of us were awarded the Expert Infantry Badge. You have no skin in this game, so why bring up an award you know nothing about?
I earned my first Army Achievement Medal for being selected U.S Army South Soldier of the Month. Should I have to recertify for that too?
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
Our (AF) guys get a trophy/plaque and maybe some gift certificates. They MIGHT get an Achievement Medal if they have 3 years and no dings on their record and are top notch performers or deploy and are in the top 10% of their unit.
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SFC Terry Murphy
At battalion level (About 500 soldiers) that's the norm also. I was chosen at battalion level, then went against soldiers from about 9 other battalions and separate units.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
SFC Terry Murphy, the only time we get anything (and it is a no-points ribbon) is if you win at the AF Level. Your Battalion sounds like our "Group" or a large Squadron.
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SFC Terry Murphy
A Battalion is 4-5 companies, Each company has 140-160 soldiers. A brigade has 3-4 Battalions, plus headquarters. A division is 4-5 Brigades. Since we were a separate brigade, we had commo, support, MPs and all other battalions, so there were 10-12 battalions in our brigade.
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i had my CIB before i earned my EIB. i got the EIB almost by accident. After I trained my Squad instead of sitting back and watching them test I tested to. 40% of my Squad EARNED their EIB that week, Including me.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
SSG Ray Fryling, it is awesome you went and earned the EIB after already having the CIB!
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I wasn't infantry or a medic, so the importance of the award doesn't matter to me. However, my understanding of those awards and the process to gain them, involves a voluntary competition where common MOS tasks either are conducted under intentionally more difficult than necessary conditions or performed to a degree beyond normal expectations. It's just a badge that denotes a certain level of proficiency and ability to deal with stress at some point in a soldiers career. It is very useful at estimating a soldiers skills regarding those tasks. If I'm digging a foxhole and two soldiers give me advice on how to do it better/faster and one has an EIB, take his advice.
TSgt Joshua Copeland The truth is almost every skill badge in the army has an element of "physical excess" to it. A long bandied truth (when I was in) about airborne school isn't about the difficulty of jumping or prepping to jump; it's the amount of running. It's a discriminating factor to limit the amount of soldiers who wear/earth the badge or tab. Discrimination used in a positive way, By making the courses of instruction more difficult than necessary it forces barriers to entry that must be overcome. Only soldiers who really desire to attend will try to overcome those barriers. This serves two goals. Primarily, the Army gains a self motivated soldier that is trying to better himself and his command has a soldier they don't have to worry about. Second, when the soldier does attend the course, the instructors have a student who wants to be there, fought to be there, and deserves to be there and teaching a student like that is a gift to the teacher.
TSgt Joshua Copeland The truth is almost every skill badge in the army has an element of "physical excess" to it. A long bandied truth (when I was in) about airborne school isn't about the difficulty of jumping or prepping to jump; it's the amount of running. It's a discriminating factor to limit the amount of soldiers who wear/earth the badge or tab. Discrimination used in a positive way, By making the courses of instruction more difficult than necessary it forces barriers to entry that must be overcome. Only soldiers who really desire to attend will try to overcome those barriers. This serves two goals. Primarily, the Army gains a self motivated soldier that is trying to better himself and his command has a soldier they don't have to worry about. Second, when the soldier does attend the course, the instructors have a student who wants to be there, fought to be there, and deserves to be there and teaching a student like that is a gift to the teacher.
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SFC Olivero Rodriguez
me too
well they burning with me, since that is what I want, my wife knows that they need to dress me in my class A" and cremate me, uniform and all.
well they burning with me, since that is what I want, my wife knows that they need to dress me in my class A" and cremate me, uniform and all.
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EFMB: Yes. Any medically related skill should require Continuing education and requalification. Those wearing the EFMB should have to maintain their NREMT at a minimum or relinquish the skill badge.
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SFC Kevin Cornett
You can say that the CMB is different, but it isn't. It, like the EFMB, is a one time award given in recognition of enduring hardships/challenges in a particular environment. Awards, one time, end of story.
Now, you want to discuss the training needed to be proficient as a Medic, fine, that is MOS skills. As a nurse, I have to renew my license every 2 years and have CEUs to do it. That's fine.
But I don't have to recert my 91C "certificate," nor do I have to recert my "MBA." Because, no matter what, I earned those, and even in my old age at the Alzheimers Unit when I barely know my own name... I will still be Kevin D. Cornett, SFC, MBA... on down the line... to all my awards, including EFMB.
Now, you want to discuss the training needed to be proficient as a Medic, fine, that is MOS skills. As a nurse, I have to renew my license every 2 years and have CEUs to do it. That's fine.
But I don't have to recert my 91C "certificate," nor do I have to recert my "MBA." Because, no matter what, I earned those, and even in my old age at the Alzheimers Unit when I barely know my own name... I will still be Kevin D. Cornett, SFC, MBA... on down the line... to all my awards, including EFMB.
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SSG (Join to see)
No Sir, it is very much a group 2 special skill badge and not an award per AR 670-1.
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SFC Kevin Cornett
I think a review of AR 600-8-22 is Order.
8–2. Types of badges
a. Combat and special skill badges are awarded to denote proficiency in performance of duties under hazardous conditions and circumstances of extraordinary hardship as well as special qualifications and successful completion of prescribed courses of training.
Special Skill Badges Include:
Combat and Special Skill Badges, page 99
Combat Infantryman Badge • 8–6, page 99
Combat Medical Badge • 8–7, page 102
Combat Action Badge • 8–8, page 104
Expert Infantryman Badge • 8–9, page 105
Expert Field Medical Badge • 8–10, page 105
Parachutist badges • 8–11, page 106
Parachutist Badge—basic • 8–12, page 106
Senior Parachutist Badge • 8–13, page 106
Master Parachutist Badge • 8–14, page 107
Parachute Rigger Badge • 8–15, page 107
Military Free Fall Parachutist Badge • 8–16, page 107
Army Aviator Badges • 8–17, page 108
Flight Surgeon Badges • 8–18, page 109
Diver Badges • 8–19, page 109
Special Operations Diver Badge • 8–20, page 109
Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badges • 8–21, page 110
Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge—basic • 8–22, page 110
Senior Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge • 8–23, page 110
Master Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge • 8–24, page 110
Pathfinder Badge • 8–25, page 110
Air Assault Badge • 8–26, page 111
Aviation Badges • 8–27, page 111
Basic Aviation Badge (formerly Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–28, page 111
Senior Aviation Badge (formerly Senior Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–29, page 112
Master Aviation Badge (formerly Master Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–30, page 112
Driver and Mechanic Badge • 8–31, page 112
Glider Badge (rescinded) • 8–32, page 113
Nuclear reactor operator badges (rescinded) • 8–33, page 113
Should all those badges require Recert as well?
8–2. Types of badges
a. Combat and special skill badges are awarded to denote proficiency in performance of duties under hazardous conditions and circumstances of extraordinary hardship as well as special qualifications and successful completion of prescribed courses of training.
Special Skill Badges Include:
Combat and Special Skill Badges, page 99
Combat Infantryman Badge • 8–6, page 99
Combat Medical Badge • 8–7, page 102
Combat Action Badge • 8–8, page 104
Expert Infantryman Badge • 8–9, page 105
Expert Field Medical Badge • 8–10, page 105
Parachutist badges • 8–11, page 106
Parachutist Badge—basic • 8–12, page 106
Senior Parachutist Badge • 8–13, page 106
Master Parachutist Badge • 8–14, page 107
Parachute Rigger Badge • 8–15, page 107
Military Free Fall Parachutist Badge • 8–16, page 107
Army Aviator Badges • 8–17, page 108
Flight Surgeon Badges • 8–18, page 109
Diver Badges • 8–19, page 109
Special Operations Diver Badge • 8–20, page 109
Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badges • 8–21, page 110
Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge—basic • 8–22, page 110
Senior Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge • 8–23, page 110
Master Explosive Ordnance Disposal Badge • 8–24, page 110
Pathfinder Badge • 8–25, page 110
Air Assault Badge • 8–26, page 111
Aviation Badges • 8–27, page 111
Basic Aviation Badge (formerly Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–28, page 111
Senior Aviation Badge (formerly Senior Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–29, page 112
Master Aviation Badge (formerly Master Aircraft Crew Member Badge) • 8–30, page 112
Driver and Mechanic Badge • 8–31, page 112
Glider Badge (rescinded) • 8–32, page 113
Nuclear reactor operator badges (rescinded) • 8–33, page 113
Should all those badges require Recert as well?
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I don't know of many badges / tabs (except the marksmanship badge) where re-qualification is necessary. There's the CIB, EIB, airborne, air assault, pathfinder, ranger tab, special forces tab, etc. And, there are a lot of medals and ribbons if we want to bring those into the equation.
Personally, I think the question ought to be whether the marksmanship badge should require re qualification -- since none of the others do. Even the goofy driver and mechanic badge (which has the same design and placement as the marksmanship badge) is a one-time qualification.
Personally, I think the question ought to be whether the marksmanship badge should require re qualification -- since none of the others do. Even the goofy driver and mechanic badge (which has the same design and placement as the marksmanship badge) is a one-time qualification.
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LTC (Join to see)
I even think the marksmanship badges should be a permanent award however I do agree that the marksman ship should be a requirement for requalification but once you you earn the expert badhe but you should be allowed to keep it.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Physical Fitness badge must be revalidated every time....
There is a difference between Airborne, Ranger, AA, etc and the IEB/EFMB. The other badges are special skill badges earned through schools that qualify you to do certain things in the Army. EIB and EFMB are expertise badges. They do not qualify you for anything. All they say is you are an "expert" at infantry or medic skills. There is some merit in the idea that to maintain you "expert" status you need to revalidate. After all, are you an "expert" at a task you haven't done in 15 years? Even airborne qualified folks are required to go through a refresher if they haven't jumped in a while.
There is a difference between Airborne, Ranger, AA, etc and the IEB/EFMB. The other badges are special skill badges earned through schools that qualify you to do certain things in the Army. EIB and EFMB are expertise badges. They do not qualify you for anything. All they say is you are an "expert" at infantry or medic skills. There is some merit in the idea that to maintain you "expert" status you need to revalidate. After all, are you an "expert" at a task you haven't done in 15 years? Even airborne qualified folks are required to go through a refresher if they haven't jumped in a while.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland Good question, but I say NO. That would essentially mean every badge the Army has (minus weapons qualifications and PT award, which are 6 months/annual), would require annual re-qualification? There is as you well know a long list of tabs and badges... that are all lifetime awards once earned... Not sure how or why we do that/manage this.
CIB
CMB
CAB
Airborne
Rigger
Air Assault
Pathfinder
Halo (Free Fall Parachutist)
Suba
Diver
Pilot
Air Crew
Astronaut (yes)
EOD
EIB
EFMB
Driver's
Army Staff
Joint Staff
Tomb Guard
Drill Sergeant
Recruiter
Presidents Hundred
Sapper
Special Forces
Ranger
etc...
Certain specialities require certifications semi annually/annually, or when you go back to the job... K-9 handler, Tankers, Aviators... etc...
That would mean the USAF would do the same with all their badges and awards?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Army
CIB
CMB
CAB
Airborne
Rigger
Air Assault
Pathfinder
Halo (Free Fall Parachutist)
Suba
Diver
Pilot
Air Crew
Astronaut (yes)
EOD
EIB
EFMB
Driver's
Army Staff
Joint Staff
Tomb Guard
Drill Sergeant
Recruiter
Presidents Hundred
Sapper
Special Forces
Ranger
etc...
Certain specialities require certifications semi annually/annually, or when you go back to the job... K-9 handler, Tankers, Aviators... etc...
That would mean the USAF would do the same with all their badges and awards?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badges_of_the_United_States_Army
Badges of the United States Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Badges of the United States Army are military decorations issued by the United States Department of the Army to soldiers who achieve a variety of qualifications and accomplishments while serving on active and reserve duty in the United States Army.
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COL Charles Williams
MAJ Matthew Arnold I agree with you, that the Army should look at the Marines and we should save all the doodads for our Dress uniforms, and field uniforms should be largely sterile. GySgt Wayne A. Ekblad We do have a lot, or too much, not sure have passed the USAF, but we are trying. I think the vast majority of these qualification badges, not the awards part, would be hard to maintain re-certification or re-qualification on, as I tried to explain several times above. Perhaps, the only ones that might be in the re-certification lane would be the Expert Infantry or Expert Field Medical Badge.
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LTC Jason Mackay
COL Charles Williams - Sir you may have mentioned BAR in your initial comment, but I replied to this off the update feed. May have missed it.
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COL Charles Williams
Hooah LTC Jason Mackay ATW. I remember when I went back to Bragg... and someone mentioned BAR... I was thinking of an automatic rifle...
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SFC Mark Merino
I think I became a grunt just from years of watching Kirby rocking the BAR on Combat. My son's middle name is Caje (Pierre Jalbert's character). I have issues.
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