Should the Military Create New Warrant Officer Occupational Specialties?

CW3 (Join to see) - don't off hand, just remember meeting one in the catacombs of a Corps HQ.

LTC Jason Mackay - MA is a very small community. I just graduated with my degree in Funeral Service, and sought out for a couple years prior to find out this answer. There needs to be a minimum of 20 Warrant Officer positions in order to make it a feasible MOS for Warrant Officers.

CW3 (Join to see) - 131A http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO131A.shtml

LTC Jason Mackay - Ah yes, I am familiar with that Warrant MOS sir. One of the few "combat arms" Warrant Officers (that and 180A).

Haha. Good one. But seriously, its easy to find a Warrant Officer. You just summon them. This is how you do it.

CW3 (Join to see) - All kidding aside, I had a close friendship with our motor pool CW3 - lived 3 houses down from where I lived - Guy was never around the Motor Pool that I can ever see, but he sure did get our shit done, parts would magically appear when you needed them, but you never saw him get it done.

SSG Robert Perrotto - All kidding aside... That's because Warrant Officers have magic powers. :)

Also it seem that the Army took hold of a concept of not being to top heavy but having a rank between and enlisted person and higher ranking commissioned officers. It seems that first took of in rotary wing aviation that rather than have enlisted pilots or too many higher ranking officers or limiting their promotions to avoid becoming top heavy Warrant Officers was a good solution. Promotion problem would also be solved as there was still room for upward advancement up to W4 then but now up to W5. It seems like both the Army and the soldiers won on this move. It seems a Warrant Officer often has the best of a lot of things, seems its not a bad place to be. The Air Force used to have warrant Officers but now is the only branch that doesn't. There has been some discussion of bring the warrant officer back into the Air Force, will that happen ? I don't know and have no predictions on that but it seemed to work ok back when they did.

I agree with you. There used to be a lot of problems in the old Warrant Officer Corps in many regards, but I believe the Army has fixed a lot of that, and now utilizes Warrants to the service's benefit. I don't think the Air Force ever really gave their program a shot and truthfully, the Army hadn't worked out all the kinks yet by the time the Air Force had already decided to disband theirs. However, 100 years later and the Warrant Officer Cohort has only been expanding. I think its safe to say it is a success!

You are absolutely correct. The Army has brought the Warrant more in line with the ROLO counterparts. This with branch insignia on uniforms, schooling, and field grade status for evaluation reports. LDO roles in the future???

CW5 Ranger Dave - The only reason I know this are the History classes we got at WOCS (good ole Mother-Rucker, had an awesome retired CW4 instructor). Since then I have been fascinated with WO history.

As CW3 (Join to see) stated, they need to be deep enough, at least 20, to have an MOS....with the scale down of FI Battalions to FMSUs lead by a senior Captain/Major, these units are sparse with one per division, the density might not be there.

It's going to be at the expense of an NCO or Officer slot.

There are certain specialties within Finance where it would make sense to give up one NCO slot to make a Warrant Officer slot.

Wow I am having a flashback sir. I was assigned to a Special Forces unit in Afghanistan several years ago, and my boss was a Special Forces Warrant Officer (back when I was still an E7). His name is Michael Matthews too. Of course, I am sure that is a common name, but given the topic here, your comment about Special Forces WOs, and of course--your beard, I thought for a brief second that you were my old boss!

That's the problem as I mentioned previously sir, the Army doesn't have my MOS and I wouldn't want to do anything else.

MSgt Jason McClish - Hmm... You are weather right? Yeah I think the closest thing we got is 13T - Field Artillery Meteorological Surveyor... There is an FA Warrant MOS too: 131A, but not sure 13T feeds into it because that's really a niche area and not really someone who would mess with the weapons systems...

Right sir! I've worked with the fires and ADA guys some, so I know probably just enough to be dangerous as far as what they usually request. I'm getting older anyway, plus there's an NJP issue in my record from 3 years ago, so it probably wouldn't matter anyway.

MSgt Jason McClish - 13T meteorological/FA surveyor accesses to 131A Targeting Technician. http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO131A.shtml

I must admit the concept of the Navy LDOs still confuses me a bit.

SPC (Join to see) - No. W6 is still an authorized pay grade, but the Army doesn't use it and never did. We didn't even have CW5s until 1991 I believe. Although the original recommendations for both W5 and W6 were made the in 60's. The proposed rank for the CW6 would look similar to CW5, only instead of one thin stripe, it would be two. Right now, in terms of pay grade at least, the five warrant ranks fit pretty well in between enlisted and regular officer ranks. There is some overlap in pay based on time-in-service though, most notably with E9s making more money then most junior warrant officers (as they should, as they also make more then most 2LTs).

CW5/6 was a result of the TWOs study or Total Warrant Officer Study. During the Vietnam Conflict. Aviation WOs made W-2 after one year in grade. and accurated promotins after that. Once hitting W-4 that was the end of the road. CW4s could spent the next 12 years ( 20 year retirement) or 22 years in grade for (30 year) retirement with no opportunities for further promotion. Hence the authorization and creation of W-5/6. I for one support the Navy's LDO program for direct commissioning from WO grades to O grades. I remember when we obtained our Presidential Commissions in the mid-80s. This brought us in line with the commissioning of Warrant Officers in the Naval Services.

CW5 Ranger Dave - I have heard of instances where Aviation WO commissioned to 2LT/1LT for the Army, I don't know if that applies to other WO.

During Vietnam there was the Aviation Warrant Officer postcard Commissions. Do you want to be a First Lieutenant? Check yes or no. I knew a whole bunch of folks that did this. Many went on to retire as LTCs. Some were passed over for promotion to Major and were retained in grade until they retired as Captains.
In the mid '80s we lost a boatload (pun intended) of Vietnam era Aviation Warrants to the Coast Guard. These were CW3s with degrees. They went to the USCG as LT (jg) with a quicky course at P-cola. Many went on to fixed wing aircraft such as C-130s and Falcon jets. I saw two that had made Commander (O-5).

MSG (Anonymous) - You could have probably led with that. As for your opinions on 68W's, I know some that would disagree with you.

CW3 (Join to see) - I'm not a Medic so I have limited ability and experience to argue the point. From my perspective I think we could train Medics to become Warrant Officers with additional medical and administrative training in their field after they hit E6/E7.

As for the Infantry Warrant, I think we need to bring in some Marine Infantryman and ask them how it works for them. I see your point about finding a place for an Infantry Warrant in unit structure. Just seems like there could be something there, and maybe having them be assistants to the commander isn't a bad idea. WO1 to a Platoon, CW2 to a Company and so forth.

SPC (Join to see) - Right. I mean, having a "weapons" infantry warrant could be a possibility given the technical aspect, but like I said, how would he/she fit in at every level of the infantry company/battalion/brigade?

CW3 (Join to see) , sir, we do currently have 68W's who must maintain a paramedic level certification. Flight medics are paramedic and usually FPC certified to match the flight paramedics in the civilian sector. I will be the first to admit, I am not at the same level as an RN, or PA. However, there are also things that we have to know, which place us head and shoulders beyond what an EMT knows. However, there are some in our own ranks, that even though we are expected to, be able to manage the extremely critical patients, think we can't handle something as simple as a blood transfusion. Even though we are expected to perform RSI, pericardiocentesis, interpret ABGs, chest tubes, escharotomies, etc. Unfortunately some people do not advance with the times.