Posted on Feb 13, 2014
Should there be a Smoking/Tobacco policy for and PT failures?
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We have the Army Substance Abuse Program for the drug and alcohol abusers. We have the Army Weight Control Program for the over-weight. I believe there should be a mid-line between the two in which we can stop the Soldiers who are failing only their run event on the APFT and are seen to be heavy smokers.<div><br></div><div>I'm a smoker myself, so this is not crucifixion of smokers in anyway. I just see the Army failing in this area and feel there should be a regulation to help leaders control a problem. If these Soldiers are complaining that they can't breathe instead of their legs hurting during runs. Well, I feel there should be a regulation in place to help. We can tell them not to drink, why can't we tell them not to smoke?</div><div><br></div><div>Would you like to see a regulation in-place? How have you dealt with this situation in your own career? did it work?</div><div><br></div><div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div><br></div><div>Edit follows..</div><div><br></div><div><span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">My main point is actually that people showing alcohol problems have ASAP, people showing problems with food have AWCP, people showing problems with anger have behavioral and mental health clinics, people showing a problem with tobacco? Nothing.</span><br></div><div><span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">I say again I AM A SMOKER, this situation also does not involve me as the failure, and I am aware of programs to help them quit, but they are not Army Regulated like the aforementioned problems.</span></div><div><br></div><div>I do like the fact that I'm seeing most people give PT advice instead of spouting regulation and paperwork. Thank you all for responding. </div>
Smoking
Smokeless Tobacco
APFT
Physical Training
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 22
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I cannot deny a smoking cessation program might be warranted to help smokers quit the addiction. However, I do not think it needs to be a program started from the ground up, but instead be part of the current drug and alcohol programs. Cost becomes an issue and rather that create a new bureauracy, just use the model in existence. I was a heavy smoker during basic and AIT and I always finished in the top three in the mile run and had times of under 7 minutes and that was in combat boots and fatigue pants. Many of us smoked back then and it did not seem to impair our scores on PT tests. In fact, the smokers did as well or better than nonsmokers. I have quit smoking and do feel much better, but back then I smoked at least a pack a day and did not realize the damage being done to my respiratory system. Much more has been learned about the hazards and health risks due to smoking since then. Again, I think a program could help, but only if can be done within current framework.
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Further more CPL, as has been stated by other NCO's here, there already are programs through Army healthcare and as an NCO you should already know about them. How do you assist your Soldiers and direct them to programs to help them and their families if you don't know about them yourself?
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SPC Jeramie Hinsinger
I know of programs SFC Dettloff, That's why I asked no questions regarding that.
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SFC (Join to see)
CPL, I'm not saying you're a good or bad NCO - I don't know you or your quality of work. What I can deduce is that you are fairly inexperienced as you are a CPL and have not yet put on that first "hard" stripe. This isn't a denunciation of your capabilitiues or knowledge, you're a CPL when a lot of others are SPC's. Learn something new everyday no matter what your rank or position and understand that sometimes the most valuable lessons won't be in a pleasant format under terms we want to hear them. You said we should have a program for smokers. We do. It's called smoking cessation and is available through the clinics and hospitals. They have group and individual counseling support, dr's help the quitter make a plan, and they are further supported by meds. If you're asking why we don't have a program and this has been around since I was a SPC at least then the natural assumption is that you are unaware of programs that can assist you in your coaching, teaching, and mentoring (and general assitance & guidance) of your soldiers. It is not command sponsored, solely voluntary and that is a good thing as I feel most of those forced to go type programs have little to no effect on soldiers sent into them. A person has to want to improve - that's where leadership is involved.
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I'm kind of confused as to what it is you are asking... Are you saying the army should come up with a program to help Soldiers who fail the run event, simply because they are smokers, which is completely their decision, as well as their own fault if they fail that event? Not to mention they could have other ailments such as, too lazy to put in personal time to improve, overweight, stress fractures or shin splints etc. Smoking can't be their only reason/excuse that they failed the run and are entitled to a certain privilege/recourse.
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1SG Michael Minton
what special treatment or excuse? what military are you in.? if ANYONE lets themself get out of shape enough to fail a APFT that they know when it is coming. They get flagged, counseled. remedial pt and then chaptered if they cannot pass. what special treatment is that?
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SPC Jeramie Hinsinger
My main point is actually that people showing alcohol problems have ASAP, people showing problems with food have AWCP, people showing problems with anger have behavioral and mental health clinics, people showing a problem with tobacco? Nothing.
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SSG (Join to see)
well that isnt fully correct. Yes all of those systems are in place to help, but smokers do have smoking cessation classes. They just opt to not use it for the most part.
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SPC Maxwell McManus
I find it interesting you say they choose not to use the classes. I wasn't offered smoking cessation until my first appointment with the VA. They were there yes but for most it seems they would rather ignore that smokers exsist.
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Ah this is my all time favorite subject. The best part about it is where you say, "We can tell them not to drink, why can't we tell them not to smoke?" You are exactly right you can tell them. Yet as has been proven time and time again they can choose to ignore you and hide it better. You can tell people something all you want untill you are blue in the face. Yet they will make the choice to take what you say to heart or let it pass through without even thinking twice. That is the wonder of being a human being. Now we could sit here all day and go over articles and their punishments but that would just be arguing semantics. The bottom line of all of this is that we can't truely make anyone do anything. I would hope we learned that in prohibition. Census says, no we didn't. A regulation could help but it could also start a fire that we don't want to put out. The easier way to deal with this issue sadly is discharges. They have been doing that for years now with PT failure I'm sure it is just as viable today as it was 4 years ago.
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Smoking is a problem, I will agree with you in the fact that it causes health problems. The Army is already considering banning smoking on installations all together anyways. That has already become a discussion in the Army Times. Smoking is not illegal and that is why we cannot stop anyone from smoking. It is a right just like drinking alcohol. If someone has a problem with drinking then, yes they are referred to ASAP. And if there is a problem with weight then there is the Army Body Composition Program. If someone fails the APFT then there is a Special Population PT Program. When you start to take away a Soldier legal given right then we start talking about destruction of morale which can lead to the destruction of good order and discipline. A Soldier must agree there is a problem and voluntarily quit. If they don't then there is a chapter in place just for that just like all the other previously listed issues. There is a smoking cessation class that can help with quitting smoking as well.
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The smoking needs to be directly linked to the pt failure.
I have seen smokers completely ace their pt test while non-smokers (not overweight) struggling to breathe. Then I have seen smokers fall out of a group run just after it started.
I also don't know if it is true but smokers have told me that smoking helps them manage their breathing during the run.
Me personally, I don't smoke because I see it as a waste of money. Without running on a consistent basis, my run time will suffer badly, so conditioning my body on a consistant basis will help me. Others who suck monkey balls at running should do the same. For all those that said more cardio, they are right. I ran just about every day for a month before my last pt test and I dropped a minute off my run time. It helps.
I have seen smokers completely ace their pt test while non-smokers (not overweight) struggling to breathe. Then I have seen smokers fall out of a group run just after it started.
I also don't know if it is true but smokers have told me that smoking helps them manage their breathing during the run.
Me personally, I don't smoke because I see it as a waste of money. Without running on a consistent basis, my run time will suffer badly, so conditioning my body on a consistant basis will help me. Others who suck monkey balls at running should do the same. For all those that said more cardio, they are right. I ran just about every day for a month before my last pt test and I dropped a minute off my run time. It helps.
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Just like many have said before, smoking does not cause someone to fail a PT test. It is the lack of cardio training that hinders their the ability to run. Back when I first in in the 80's I would smoke at least 2 cigs before doing the run portion of the PT test and I never failed a run. Later when I reentered the Active Duty, I would smoke a cig before the PT test and never failed a run.
For those smokers who want to quit there are programs to help them quit smoking.
For those smokers who want to quit there are programs to help them quit smoking.
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I used to smoke a cigarette while running... It takes heart, not regulation to an individuals smoking habits.
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I quit smoking due to Boot camp for 9 weeks and also 16 weeks AIT. Then got to Korea and picked up right back up dumb me but my choice. My run times in boot were in the mid 14's and AIT. got to Korea hill hell on Camp Howze. I was stationed for 1 year by the end of my 1 year I was down to mid 12's still smoking about a pack a day. Then went to Fort Riley KS and stayed in the 12's and stopped smoke after 2 years of 5 years being on Fort Riley. My runs stayed in the 12's only because I kept up with cardio on my rime in the gym or outside. Honestly the only way I see is to do cardio on your time to improve your time on a PT test just like like the other events. Getting in shape and keeping in shape are part of it also. I was 160 before boot and 172 after boot but I was in great shape just my lungs and legs were not there yet. So that took more time and lots of it. If someone wants to smoke that is their choice if they want to if they want help to stop smoking there are products out there to help 1 stop smoking. I did the patches then started again. Then stopped with e cigs and that is all I do now and my lungs have somewhat come back nut I don't run as much as I used to in Army also.
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