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So, a military etiquette thing that has always caused me to wonder. Especially since JBLM put Soldiers back on the gates.<div><br><div>(Military) Gate guards salute Officers after checking their id. I always return the salute, whether in uniform or not. 90% of the time I am in civvies, swinging by before/after work or on my lunch break. </div></div><div><br></div><div> Am I technically right to return the salute while in civvies? I'm going to continue regardless, as it seems rude not to return a salute. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
Customs and Courtesies
Saluting
Military police
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 112
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LTC - I think returning the salute regardless if you are in uniform or in civvies is a great move on your part. It shows the Soldiers that you are returning the respect they are showing you. I remember pulling guard on post a few times, some officers wouldn't even acknowledge we were there other than by handing us their ID cards. Others would stop return the salute and greeting of the day and move on. For some reason, the ones that never really acknowledged us got hit more often with the random car searches right before PT formation... ;-)
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CPT John J. Dobise Jr.
I always saluted First Lieutenants, while I was a "Butter Bar." In fact, my first CO at Ft. Bragg was a First Lt.
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COL Jon Lopey
Captain Brashear: Great answer! I too was an enlisted Marine and saluted a lot cars with blue stickers with spouses and kids but it was the right thing to do. I too saluted 1st Lieutenants when I was a 2LT. I had company commanders who held the 1LT rank and some had extensive experience and impressive credentials. Thanks for serving and for being a stellar leader. COL L
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SSG Brian MacBain
I remember the decals that we have to put on our bumpers. I was stationed at Fort Bragg, 86-89 and I was an E-2 when I got there and left as a E-4 (P). For some reason, I was given a Blue decal (aka Officer). I was in uniform (wearing E-2 rank) when I got them. Every time I went to the Marine base Camp Lejeune (SP?), I was got saluted and see them shake their heads when they saw my rank. To this day, I still do not know why I received that decal.
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Not sure what your regs are Sir but I will say that when saluting either initiating or recognizing in civilian attire for us Marines is replaced with a position of attention. Ive seen officers come to the position of attention to acknowledge a salute when they were not in the right attire to salute back but I've also seen Marines who verbally recognize or throw some type of hand and arm signal to acknowledge you. For Marines, as long as there is something done to recognize the salute, that's all we care about so we can cut the salute.
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Capt George Kent Brashear
Sgt Packy Flickinger - Was that Air Force officer in uniform? A doctor? Inside/outside? Did the officer know you? I apologize for the slight.
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COL Jon Lopey
Gunny: You are right - There are different customs and courtesies in the USMC vs. Army. For example, it is customary to salute when reporting to a senior officer in the Army even though you are indoors. The USMC did not require that unless you were under arms. Great point. I still return a salute when it is rendered. Semper Fi, COL L
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1LT William Clardy
You're sounding like a freshly commissioned lieutenant, Maj (Join to see). Even at Snake-Eater Central, AR 600-25 still applies:
"Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately-owned vehicles, except by gate guards (military personnel only) who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute."
"Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately-owned vehicles, except by gate guards (military personnel only) who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute."
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Maj (Join to see)
My comment about the salute rate at Bragg (if that's what you took offense to with that dismissive "freshly commissioned lieutenant", 1LT....) was not tied to my being in a vehicle.
I was talking about a major, even a lowly Marine Corps major among exalted soliders, in uniform, on an army installation, getting blatantly gaffed off by from PFC on the way to the chow hall.
Ultimately, I can't care less who salutes me or not. I do the right thing, and for the rest, let the Army NCOs and SNCOs police their own.
I was talking about a major, even a lowly Marine Corps major among exalted soliders, in uniform, on an army installation, getting blatantly gaffed off by from PFC on the way to the chow hall.
Ultimately, I can't care less who salutes me or not. I do the right thing, and for the rest, let the Army NCOs and SNCOs police their own.
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Sir,
Per AR 600-25 Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy para 1-5d:
The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates
and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or
to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to
recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military
personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.
This does not say that the officer in the vehicle should or should not return the salute.
However, later in the regulation it states when salutes are not required: 1-5i:
Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.
(4) Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety
Based off this I would go with return the salute if you are able. I always do as it is out of respect.
Per AR 600-25 Salutes, Honors, and Visits of Courtesy para 1-5d:
The practice of saluting officers in official vehicles (recognized individually by rank or identifying vehicle plates
and/or flags) is considered an appropriate courtesy and will be observed. Salutes are not required to be rendered by or
to personnel who are driving or riding in privately owned vehicles, except by gate guards who will render salutes to
recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical. When military
personnel are acting as drivers of a moving vehicle, they should not initiate a salute.
This does not say that the officer in the vehicle should or should not return the salute.
However, later in the regulation it states when salutes are not required: 1-5i:
Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are—
(1) In civilian attire.
(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.
(4) Working as a member of a detail, or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety
Based off this I would go with return the salute if you are able. I always do as it is out of respect.
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LTC (Join to see)
I return the salute if the Guard (military or civilian) salutes, if driver safety permits. Normally it does, since the car is stopped, but I believe the regulation makes it optional to the driver due to driving safety.
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COL Jon Lopey
MAJ: Great point. I still render a return salute while at a gate. Normally, I get a salute while still stopped and I think it is appropriate to salute when you receive the same courtesy from a hard-working, professional MP or security officer. Great points, however. Thanks for serving. COL L
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COL Jon Lopey
SPC: You bring up a great point about saluting in a combat zone. You are right, generally such formal customs and courtesies are dispensed with in combat zones. However, there were times when such signs of respect were appropriate, especially when dealing with high-ranking officers of our service or foreign dignitary. Usually these were in areas where there were robust force protection measures present for those VIPs. COL L
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I've always returned a salute whenever I'm physically able. I believe that not returning one is a sign of disrespect.
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Sir,
I do the same, as I visited JBLM a couple of weeks ago and found gate guards there. I can say that, being on the other side of the salute for a long time and standing at those gates, that I thought it was rude when an officer did not return the courtesy.
So, in stead of being rude (now), I try to do the very thing I was offended by when it wasn't done those many years ago. They are giving me the respect earned and, therefore, I am returning their respect.
I do the same, as I visited JBLM a couple of weeks ago and found gate guards there. I can say that, being on the other side of the salute for a long time and standing at those gates, that I thought it was rude when an officer did not return the courtesy.
So, in stead of being rude (now), I try to do the very thing I was offended by when it wasn't done those many years ago. They are giving me the respect earned and, therefore, I am returning their respect.
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LTC Martin Metz
It never hurts an officer to have some enlisted time in their history especially if it keeps them grounded.
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From day of basic training I was told "When in doubt, whip it out". May not be the best phrasing any more in our kindler, gentler military but I think it does ring try here.
I do know that some of the branches an officer isn't required to return a salute when not in uniform or under cover but I do think that common coourtesy would at least dictate verbally acknowledging the gesture.
Several years ago I was conducting a post visit with one of my guys working a gate when a Navy LT came through the gate and threw a hissy fit when I didn't salute him when he came through even though the other guy checked the ID (he was in uniform though not making him a complete ass over the deal). After I explained why I didn't initially salute him and rendered something close to a salute he proceeded to drive off with out returning any type of gesture to either of us.
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I don't see how you could ever possibly be wrong returning the salute, if for no other reason than as a courtesy. Technical answer....don't really know, but I would either way!
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Vincent,
I have always returned the guards salute even when I am in civvies and I always give the civilian guards here at Belvoir the greeting of the day since so many are not very nice coming in the gate.
I have always returned the guards salute even when I am in civvies and I always give the civilian guards here at Belvoir the greeting of the day since so many are not very nice coming in the gate.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
Thank You Colonel, as one that has worked many gates, that is much appreciated and shows a mutual respect.
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I believe the hand salute is one of the highest courtesies you can give someone. Think about the other things Soldiers salute? Flag and Country. If I render that courtesy I expect it to be acknowledged. Seriously If you are an officer and you don't acknowledge that courtesy then shame on you.
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COL (Join to see)
Thanks for the great research. Based on the wording, the driver "of a moving vehicle" should not salute. So if I show my ID to the guard, I will make sure I salute back before I drive off.
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CPT (Join to see)
Drivers should not "initiate" the salute, but there is nothing to prohibit them from returning the salute. I always return the salute before driving away. I believe the guard deserves the recognition and respect.
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LTC Martin Metz
When there is a senior occupant in the vehicle, he should be the one returning the salute rather than the driver.....it's wiser as a safety precaution as well.
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CPO James Worobe
If the officer is the operator of a moving vehicle, he or she should not salute, however if that officer is at the gate and the vehicle is not moving, he or she should return the courtesy.
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I always have, and will continue to. It is a respect and common courtesy to the Soldier at the gate that initiates the salute.
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