Posted on Feb 17, 2017
Similar to the E-2 question, how would you react to a young 2LT who is being unprofessional with a strong sense of entitlement?
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Here's the background. You are an experienced Soldier. You walk in to the commissary to see a young 2LT shopping with a headset on. You professionally and politely get the 2LT’s attention and address the deficiency. They blatantly are rude, dismiss your comment, and tell you that those rules do not apply to him as an officer. Whether you are an Officer or Enlisted, how do you react?
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 445
here goes.
fort ord summer 1968. i was the g-4 facilities officer and capt. big john (6'-4",ss ,bs, cib, wings, two tours) were monitoring the reserve training at camp roberts.
we decide to go to the officers club for lunch (wooden building with ac)
so in comes this 2nd lt ( 5'-5", 40 lbs overweight) with this drill instructors hat on with a gold bar in the middle of his hat, a big ass green belt with this huge belt buckle, bloused pants, and wait for this, a swagger stick that would make monty jealous.
big john ,"what kind of a clown outfit do you have on?"
" you will unblouse your pants, unless you are going to jump today, secure a baseball cap, like the rest of us, get rid of that god awful belt and buckle, and wait for this, if i see you on this base with swagger stick again, i will stuff it up your ass sideways"
true story. fast howard
fort ord summer 1968. i was the g-4 facilities officer and capt. big john (6'-4",ss ,bs, cib, wings, two tours) were monitoring the reserve training at camp roberts.
we decide to go to the officers club for lunch (wooden building with ac)
so in comes this 2nd lt ( 5'-5", 40 lbs overweight) with this drill instructors hat on with a gold bar in the middle of his hat, a big ass green belt with this huge belt buckle, bloused pants, and wait for this, a swagger stick that would make monty jealous.
big john ,"what kind of a clown outfit do you have on?"
" you will unblouse your pants, unless you are going to jump today, secure a baseball cap, like the rest of us, get rid of that god awful belt and buckle, and wait for this, if i see you on this base with swagger stick again, i will stuff it up your ass sideways"
true story. fast howard
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Ok, so this story is *a lot* more egregious than headphones in the commissary, but it's still a great story:
A classmate of mine (sadly) was a Division Officer on the carrier with me. I'm intentionally going to leave out details about the ship and his name, only out of concern for his family. I did not actually witness this, but all the different accounts that I heard about the incedent were nearly identical; so, I believe it to be true.
So, one sunny afternoon, ENS "Entitled" came across a E-2 in the hangar bay who was not wearing a hard hat. Instead of kindly reminding the young man about safety protocols, ENS Entitled decided to verbally set him on fire. Very loudly. In full view and earshot of the entire hangar bay. A Master Chief witnessed it from the other side of the hanger, then broke the sound barrier to intercept ENS Entitled and proceed to "surgically create a new bodily orifice" for him. When ENS Entitled tried to pull rank, the Master Chief exhibited extraordinary restraint and walked away. Within the hour, ENS Entitled was summoned by the XO. XO significantly expanded the new orifice that Master Chief had started, and then he took his division away. They still let him stand watch, but only as conning officer; he had no chance of making OOD after that. I haven't heard from him since (and don't want to).
A classmate of mine (sadly) was a Division Officer on the carrier with me. I'm intentionally going to leave out details about the ship and his name, only out of concern for his family. I did not actually witness this, but all the different accounts that I heard about the incedent were nearly identical; so, I believe it to be true.
So, one sunny afternoon, ENS "Entitled" came across a E-2 in the hangar bay who was not wearing a hard hat. Instead of kindly reminding the young man about safety protocols, ENS Entitled decided to verbally set him on fire. Very loudly. In full view and earshot of the entire hangar bay. A Master Chief witnessed it from the other side of the hanger, then broke the sound barrier to intercept ENS Entitled and proceed to "surgically create a new bodily orifice" for him. When ENS Entitled tried to pull rank, the Master Chief exhibited extraordinary restraint and walked away. Within the hour, ENS Entitled was summoned by the XO. XO significantly expanded the new orifice that Master Chief had started, and then he took his division away. They still let him stand watch, but only as conning officer; he had no chance of making OOD after that. I haven't heard from him since (and don't want to).
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I was fairly fresh to my Command in Lemoore, and a new Navy PO3 to boot, when an E5 and an E6 from another work center but housed in the same shop as i was, started going at each other in the middle of the shop in front of everyone. but at this time I had approximately 7 years of service prior, with 6+ in the Army. I asked both Petty Officers to accompany me to the "break room" and proceeded to explain to them that was not the way to act in front of subordinates. They had put on quite a show. My reaction to, and how I handled the situation, later went on my eval.
Also while in "A" school, I attended the Navy ball at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola. I don't recall how I ended up in a conversation with a Marine Colonel but I pointed to a missing button on his shirt in his mess dress uniform and informed him of it. He checked to see if it was still there and rebuttoned it exclaiming that he was glad that it was still there because the damned things were expensive. Should have seen the faces on the other junior enlisted. They were all amazed that I would dare to correct an officer. If an officer, or anyone in a leadership position, cannot stand to be corrected by those they "lead", they should not be in the position.
Another time, fresh out of the Army and on my way home, I stopped at my brother's place in Corvallis where he was attending ROTC. He happened to be having a party that was all ROTC cadets. Most of them took the time to talk to me to ask how they could succeed in the military. I explained to listen to you enlisted folk, they are going to be the ones to teach you how to do your job.
Also while in "A" school, I attended the Navy ball at the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola. I don't recall how I ended up in a conversation with a Marine Colonel but I pointed to a missing button on his shirt in his mess dress uniform and informed him of it. He checked to see if it was still there and rebuttoned it exclaiming that he was glad that it was still there because the damned things were expensive. Should have seen the faces on the other junior enlisted. They were all amazed that I would dare to correct an officer. If an officer, or anyone in a leadership position, cannot stand to be corrected by those they "lead", they should not be in the position.
Another time, fresh out of the Army and on my way home, I stopped at my brother's place in Corvallis where he was attending ROTC. He happened to be having a party that was all ROTC cadets. Most of them took the time to talk to me to ask how they could succeed in the military. I explained to listen to you enlisted folk, they are going to be the ones to teach you how to do your job.
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As Senior NCO, if I witnessed a 2LT being unprofessional to anyone, the LT and I will be going behind closed doors and my conversation will be very directive concerning his/her behavior. If a LT is being unprofessional to you - start addressing it with you supervisor.
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My dad (Lcdr )told me that until I got two bars, I should check EVERYTHING with my Chief. I never got two bars but I did get the two chevrons below my crow as a PO2. I was told if I reenlisted that I would go to ROTS as a PO1 until commissioning. I chose not to go to Nam and continued college as a civilian.
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I'd see what was going on, and then I'd tell the 2LT to remove his headset. If he gave me any guff, I'd lock him up in parade rest right then and there, and I'd dress him down in front of all to see.
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As an old bastard, I would say,
"Okay, LT, just thought I'd mention it...sense of duty and all that nonsense. It really is no big deal and I am sure the troops you will be leading someday into combat will make note of your disconcerting tendencies and come up with a way to rectify them. After all, they have your back. Have a thoughtful day, Sir."
"Okay, LT, just thought I'd mention it...sense of duty and all that nonsense. It really is no big deal and I am sure the troops you will be leading someday into combat will make note of your disconcerting tendencies and come up with a way to rectify them. After all, they have your back. Have a thoughtful day, Sir."
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The 2LT is abandoning his rank by publicly showing off his lack of military bearing and dismissal of military traditions. The rude reaction to correction is also abandonment of military traditions, and the behavior is violation of “ART 134 - Service Discrediting Conduct” and “Behavior Contrary to the Good Order and Discipline of the Armed Forces.”
He needs to be yanked up by his “stacking swivel” and counseled (officially) by the unit Commanding Officer, before he does any more damage to the “SPECIAL TRUST AND CONFIDENCE” that he bears as a commissioned officer.
The way to the Commanding Officer’s ear is through the Senior Enlisted Chain of Command.
In the Marines we address grievances through the Chain of Command, and in the case of exceptionally grievous behavior, any member of any unit at any level of military authority may “REQUEST CAPTAIN’S MAST” that makes the allegations of misconduct a part of the Unit History. To avoid inflicting a stain on the historical record of the Military Reporting Unit, the grievance will be headed off at the appropriate level of Senior Enlisted Leadership (SGTMAJ, 1STSGT...ARMY CSM).
Anyone who assumes their public displays of offensive and vulgar behavior doesn’t understand that as a leader, your actions are under scrutiny and judgment at all times; this is the privilege of the commission in the first place.
He needs to be yanked up by his “stacking swivel” and counseled (officially) by the unit Commanding Officer, before he does any more damage to the “SPECIAL TRUST AND CONFIDENCE” that he bears as a commissioned officer.
The way to the Commanding Officer’s ear is through the Senior Enlisted Chain of Command.
In the Marines we address grievances through the Chain of Command, and in the case of exceptionally grievous behavior, any member of any unit at any level of military authority may “REQUEST CAPTAIN’S MAST” that makes the allegations of misconduct a part of the Unit History. To avoid inflicting a stain on the historical record of the Military Reporting Unit, the grievance will be headed off at the appropriate level of Senior Enlisted Leadership (SGTMAJ, 1STSGT...ARMY CSM).
Anyone who assumes their public displays of offensive and vulgar behavior doesn’t understand that as a leader, your actions are under scrutiny and judgment at all times; this is the privilege of the commission in the first place.
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There's a rule against headsets???? If they are breaking the Commissary rule, then I would refer to the Commissary Officer to handle. I am not the Commissary MP nor the Commissary Protocol Officer if there is such an animal. As far as the rest of the world is concerned you courteously make mention to the officer, if they continue, then you can place him or her on report and let him people pull his sheets taught.
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