Posted on May 17, 2024
Since Beards are becoming more prevalent, is it time for the Army to authorize beards across the force?
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Social Media, especially Facebook are highlighting US Army NCOs sporting full beards. It is time to allow all soldiers to have a beard or no one to have a beard. This is being used as a DEI issue. It is not. It is an issue of having one standard. I am not questioning leader effectiveness, I am not questioning patriotism, I am not questioning devotion to duty. I am stating that to allow a beard based on religion is a violation of the First Amendment and the 14th Amendment.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
Posted in these groups: 
Grooming Standards
Standards
Grooming Standards Standards
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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There were several times I had a beard due to operational necessity (Antarctica and Sandbox) to do my job. The notion of "uniform" from the Latin "uniformus" roughly means having one only. To keep things the most simple with the least overhead, edicts like this only, no beards, etc. are fairly clear. Absence of clarity leaves room for creativity that has to be dealt with because you always have that part of the bell curve. If you allow a thing, you're stuck managing a thing. Same goes for allowing RE-3s back in, figuring out Fruit Salad and Patch Mania; the list goes on.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Sir my point is still Beards for all or beards for no one. It is not right to allow one Soldier to do a thing that the man standing to his left or right in formation is punished for doing. To allow a want, as in I am a Nordic Pagan and WANT a beard because Odin said so to be accepted against I WANT one because I want it even though I am a Lutheran and God does not care one way or another about my beard. Acceptance of a religious standard, as in the case of a Muslim Soldier is acceptance of part of Sharia Law. So where does that stop? Sharia Law which mandates beards, allows a man to have up to 7 wives, should the Army accept that?
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I see it every morning coming through the gate. Grizzly Adams is checking ID's standing next to Super Mario with the 70's porn star style mustache. IMHO, it just does not look professional. It looks like you're entering a college campus, not a military base. I understand the military has changed from a follow the rules force to a "let's make everyone happy" fraternity but what happened to rules and regulations? I know I'll get a lot of flak from everyone that feels growing a beard is very important and should be allowed, because, you know, the military should be more lenient and accommodating to everyone. But I feel the military needs to get back to it's basics.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Indeed... My Point EXACTLY, although I use circular logic to get there. If one person is allowed to do it then everyone should be allowed to. Picture a Muslim Platoon Sergeant giving a negative counseling to a Private that forgot to shave while the Platoon Sargant has a beard down to his belly button. What Hypocrisy! What a Double Standard... Neither of which is good for the unit, or the Soldiers that the man with the exception to policy leads, or in fact fails to lead.
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MSgt Grant Davison
There are those exceptions, be it shaving waiver for med reasons or the ever popular religious reasons. But in today's college campus military where everyone questions authority instead of following it, seems that there are more taking advantage of loopholes in the regs than actually following them. I don't seem to recall so many men walking around with beards back in my day, and I'm sure there were Muslims or whatever religions in the military back then. I remember reading about an airman stating he was a Pagan so he had to be allowed to wear a beard for his religious beliefs. What's next, worshiping garden gnomes so beards must be allowed? But yeah, you're right. It is hypocrisy and to alleviate that hypocrisy maybe leadership should put the "leader" part back in their namesake and take a stand.
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Absolutely not, as afore mentioned by some, its called unform for reason. Hygiene is a major reason, uniformity being yet another. There use to be some units or assignments which allow beards but they are few and far between. The reqirement still is a well maintained appearance. Once the assignment is completed, it is back to the standard appearance required by regulation. Back when I served I had to always have a razor with me and shaved twice a day to stay in regs. Stick with the program and stop wining of this little requirement, next you'll be crying that the mess hall doesn't serve beer with your evening meal or you want pink socks.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Sergeant I AGREE with you, read my preceding comment. I say EVERYONE or NO ONE and I mean EVERYONE or NO ONE. No exceptions to the rule other than a HEALTH issue. I do not agree with ANY special allowances, at all for any reason. No Religious exceptions... Period. The Military NEVER made provisions for faith traditions that do not work on Saturday, so why allow a total disregard for the grooming regulations? If you allow this, the military is placing a religion over the regulation in violation of the 1st Amendment. And where does it stop? Sharia Law give a man the right to hit his wive(s) for not being obedient, so does the military accept that as well? It is not a far stretch.
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I agree with SSG Roger Ayscue's comment. Men should be allowed to grow beards, especially since some are allowed to according to religion. A beard is one of the things that can define a man. Soldiers are generally men. Use logic. If it isn't so long that it gets in the way of quick gearing up, then it should be allowed.
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Into the late 19th Century, it was not unusual for military personnel to have facial hair and many had beards. I'm guessing the use of chemical weapons in WWI and the necessity to wear a gas mask started the demise of the beard. General and President Grant had a beard. Teddy Roosevelt had a mustache that exceeded current limits as did GEN Pershing. By WWII, none of the senior officers wore beards--at least not in their official photos. So we have to ask, does it matter? Well, yes, but only because it's a Service standard. If the standard is clean shaven, then it should be applied to all service members. It was largely so in the mid-20th Century, then exceptions began to come in. People with certain skin problems were granted waivers. Then waivers became easier to get. I think it would be good to change the standard. Arrive at a common agreement among the Services on what an allowable beard can look like and enforce the standard. There would be an outbreak of beards for a few years. In the end the Service Members with the time and inclination to grow a nice beard will keep them. Everybody else will shave clean and move on.
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Beards should be allowed as an option, especially since some individuals are allowed to grow them. A beard is one thing that defines a man. Soldiers are generally men. Use logic, guys. I agree with SSG Roger Ayscue's argument.
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I agree wholeheartedly. It should be one standard, and that standard should be that beards are authorized. Until that becomes a reality, I am "okay" with religious exemptions that allow them.
'Cuz I'm not a hater like that.
'Cuz I'm not a hater like that.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Please explain how it is being a "Hater" to say that everyone should have one standard? No matter what ethnicity, what faith tradition, or what background, every service member took an oath to "Obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Officers appointed over according to regulations, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, So Help Me God"
that oath was not taken at gunpoint, it was taken freely... and in recognition of this fact, that the oath was taken freely, then if the regulations say no beards, then to expect that regulation to be both enforced AND adhered to is not "Hate" Staff Sergeant, disagreement is not HATE it is disagreement. Disagreement can lead to open dialogue. Calling disagreement HATE is closing doors and minds to change and acceptance.
that oath was not taken at gunpoint, it was taken freely... and in recognition of this fact, that the oath was taken freely, then if the regulations say no beards, then to expect that regulation to be both enforced AND adhered to is not "Hate" Staff Sergeant, disagreement is not HATE it is disagreement. Disagreement can lead to open dialogue. Calling disagreement HATE is closing doors and minds to change and acceptance.
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SSG (Join to see)
SSG Roger Ayscue - "Please explain how it is being a "Hater" to say that everyone should have one standard?"
Saying there should be one standard isn't being a hater. Being angry at people who are the exception to the standard is.
I do not agree with what the standard is. That doesn't mean I don't follow or enforce it.
Also, "being a hater" is not the same thing as "having hate."
Saying there should be one standard isn't being a hater. Being angry at people who are the exception to the standard is.
I do not agree with what the standard is. That doesn't mean I don't follow or enforce it.
Also, "being a hater" is not the same thing as "having hate."
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG (Join to see) - It is not hate. It is an understanding that those soldiers who have a non-medical exception took the same oath to obey the same orders that I did, and now suddenly, "Oh my religion says I can have a beard." NO. you took the same oath as everyone else. What happens when they say, "My religion says that I can have more than one wife?" or "My religion says that if you wife gets out of line, I can hit her?" No Sergeant, no religion should be looked at more favorably than any other. Make one standard for everyone.
No Soldier should be able to determine for themself which regulations they will and will not follow, for any reason.
No Soldier should be able to determine for themself which regulations they will and will not follow, for any reason.
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The original reason for being shaved, was so your "gas mask' fit properly and did not let contaminated air in for you to breath.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Sergeant, no doubt. In the decades that I was on active duty, we were told this. It was bullshit then, it is bullshit now. NO Unit that is not in theater walks around with a pro mask on their hip because a gas attack on CONUS soil is so far in the way out of possibilities. If there were a credible threat of that, we would be at war with someone.
The reason that beards were not allowed is that Big Green did not like them. It was not the image they wanted to portray.
My point in this is simple "Beards for everyone or beards for no one, aside from medical reasons" Period.
Observing a religion or a culture is a CHOICE. Just like the CHOICE to enlist in the Army. IF one Soldier can make a choice to follow a set of beliefs that say he has to grow a beard, and the Army allows it, then BY LAW (Since it is a 1st Amendment Church/State issue, and the Army cannot honor one faith over another, or the lack of one for that matter) then the Soldier that makes the choice to have a beard because he wants one because he likes beards has just as much right to grow one as the Muslim or the Nordic Pagan. Adoption of one part of a Culture over military regulations is opening the door for the acceptance of culture as a defense in breaking the law. For example a Muslim husband can, if he sense "arrogance" in them (his wife or wives) first correct them, then reject them in bed and then strike them (Ayah 34, Sura an-Nisa) and in Nordic Paganism, a divorce involves a dagger and its use on the other party in the marriage. ( I had a pagan soldier who requested to move back into the barracks until the next full moon because he was getting a divorce... I told the guy just to get a good lawyer).
My point is simple, I say Beards for everyone or no one. For decades Jews had to work on Shabat, Seventh Day Adventists had to work on Saturday, and many, many, Christians were told to wash the "Black Crap" off their faces on Ash Wednesday. Religious observances are a choice as is how devoutly an individual chooses to follow them. If a person can follow their beliefs within Army Regulations, then do so happily. But if not then perhaps the Army is just not for them. NO one deserves to be more special than anyone else.
The reason that beards were not allowed is that Big Green did not like them. It was not the image they wanted to portray.
My point in this is simple "Beards for everyone or beards for no one, aside from medical reasons" Period.
Observing a religion or a culture is a CHOICE. Just like the CHOICE to enlist in the Army. IF one Soldier can make a choice to follow a set of beliefs that say he has to grow a beard, and the Army allows it, then BY LAW (Since it is a 1st Amendment Church/State issue, and the Army cannot honor one faith over another, or the lack of one for that matter) then the Soldier that makes the choice to have a beard because he wants one because he likes beards has just as much right to grow one as the Muslim or the Nordic Pagan. Adoption of one part of a Culture over military regulations is opening the door for the acceptance of culture as a defense in breaking the law. For example a Muslim husband can, if he sense "arrogance" in them (his wife or wives) first correct them, then reject them in bed and then strike them (Ayah 34, Sura an-Nisa) and in Nordic Paganism, a divorce involves a dagger and its use on the other party in the marriage. ( I had a pagan soldier who requested to move back into the barracks until the next full moon because he was getting a divorce... I told the guy just to get a good lawyer).
My point is simple, I say Beards for everyone or no one. For decades Jews had to work on Shabat, Seventh Day Adventists had to work on Saturday, and many, many, Christians were told to wash the "Black Crap" off their faces on Ash Wednesday. Religious observances are a choice as is how devoutly an individual chooses to follow them. If a person can follow their beliefs within Army Regulations, then do so happily. But if not then perhaps the Army is just not for them. NO one deserves to be more special than anyone else.
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Would have loved if they allowed it when I was in, but the argument (which IS valid) is that you can't get a tight seal with a gas mask if you have a beard. Had no choice but to respect that and knew shaving was a requirement when I entered the service. Waited 21.5 years to grow a beard and do NOT miss shaving every day...
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