Posted on Oct 7, 2015
So there I was, speech class on campus, in uniform. I got 5 points taken off my speech for not having on a "professional" attire. Fair?
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DA Pam 670-1
Posted 10 y ago
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After reading all the comments I agree with your professor docking you five points for wearing your ACUs.... Note I said ACU because that is what your wore. As a professor I too would dock someone for wearing an ACU instead of the ASU. When making a presentation the ASU is the professional uniform to discuss military topics. You will never see a General, officer or any senior non commissioned officer go before a board or interview panal in public to make a speech in ACUs especially with civilians. You will see see them do so in ASUs. The ACU is a "professional work uniform" the ASU is the "professional" serviceable uniform. That is why many units are now wearing the ASU "class B" in garrison. I hate you lost 5 points but I hope you use this advice for future circumstances.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Yep, this right here. Had the same thing happen and my class was ON base. I found time to change into "proper" attire prior to the next class. As a first-level supervisor, I would also permit my subs to take a few minutes towards the end of the duty day to change into appropriate attire for class. Talk to your Sgt and see what you can work out.
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LTC (Join to see)
This comment dovetails with why I am railing about the Army being the only service that regularly wears the combat uniform in public. I agree that Sgt de Los Santos should wear a dress uniform (ASU). However, the Army has virtually eliminated dress uniforms except for very formal situations. How many times have you seen a recruiter from other services wearing their field/combat uniform in public except for special displays of field equipment? Army recruiters are nearly always in ACUs. Thats is because their class B is terrible. (Even when the Army Green was still worn and the class B went to the green shirt, that was also a poor class B uniform; the Army started wearing the ACU as their everyday uniform. Most units even do awards ceremonies in ACUs. If the SGT were in any other service, I would have agreed to have SGT Del Los Rios be deducted the points, but the Army has developed a culture of wearing the ACU as an all-purpose uniform. Please develop a professional-looking Class B and require such wear by recruiters and office workers!
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SSG (Join to see)
You clearly haven't seen live interviews of the top out there. The most recent being CG SNOW with usarec. All the top wears ocp for interviews.
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Why on earth were you wearing your uniform? Trying to score some free "patriotism" points? There was no reason for you to wear it. I'm inclined to think the instructor was lenient.
I'm assuming you were wearing ACU's. That's a "work uniform", the equivalent of wearing mechanics coveralls. It most certainly isn't "professional attire".
I'm assuming you were wearing ACU's. That's a "work uniform", the equivalent of wearing mechanics coveralls. It most certainly isn't "professional attire".
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Suspended Profile
Sounds like someone who does not believe in our way of life was offended. Seems to be a lot of that going on lately. Even Christians are now going to jail for standing their ground regarding the religious and spiritual beliefs. There was a post on my Facebook page that some people were offended by a sign that state God Bless our troops. Every time I see these things I see the 14th amendment to our constitution is being used to twist what our original Constitution meant. Also make me understand what was said by Stallen I think, correct me if I am wrong, we will over throw the united states without firing a single shot using our Constitution and bill of rights against us. Make me wonder what is going on when a child can no longer pray, yet no one knows why there are so many slaying in schools. Makes me wonder why a veteran can't wear his uniform in a class with out someone being offended. Makes me wonder why we can't Publicly display God Bless our troops in America without being sued or offending someone.
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Unless you are taking classes on the base education center, I would follow the rules of a civilian on a civilian campus. The professor wanted to grade you the same way he/she grades all the students, to get the students to select attire that matches the topic.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
my topics were related to the military but not to an extent were I was speaking for it. just didn't have time to change out.
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Maj Walter Kilar
I understand, but off-campus professors do not have to. The professor probably assumes you have time to change in and out of uniform, especially for this particular assignment. I am not saying I agree, but I am saying that professors have a right to be this way.
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Did he give specific guidelines on professional attire? If not, then I'd challenge it.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
Basically, dress to the topic of the speech. All my speeches were military related.
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SFC(P) (Join to see) While it may be acceptable, from a Military standpoint, to wear your uniform for such an occasion, obviously your teacher/professor did not believe that your attire was proper, maybe because of the subject of your presentation, or maybe because he/she felt that wearing your uniform actually distracted listeners from actually concentrating on what you were saying. I hate to say it it, because I know that you are proud of your uniform, but you can just take the -5 points for that class, or it might be better to wear some nice civilian attire next time.
Note: After reading your other comments, I believe that the instructor is in the wrong. If you really don't have time to change, then I would take this up with a counselor, or other school administrator.
Note: After reading your other comments, I believe that the instructor is in the wrong. If you really don't have time to change, then I would take this up with a counselor, or other school administrator.
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
I would wear civilian attire if I'm not rushing to get to class after my duty hours everyday. Do not have time to change.
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PVT Robert Gresham
SFC(P) (Join to see) - Please see the note that I added to my comment. I understand that entirely. So should your instructor !!
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That is total BS. I was going to class for my Associate's degree when I was activated for a state emergency known as "Operation Deep Freeze". The gist of it was, our community where my unit is located had no natural gas. You can Google "Operation Deep Freeze NM" or "Northern NM loses Natural Gas" if you want to know more. Now, we had an assignment that I could not make up, no matter what. It was an etiquette dinner. So of course, the school isn't going to spend all of that money on one student. I asked my Squad leader if I can attend and notified her I will receive a zero if I don't. She pushed it up the chain, they determined they can lose me for a few hours and gave the green light. I traveled from Taos, NM to Albuquerque, NM and got there right on time in ACUs. Everyone else is in suits. I received full credit for the class. This was at ITT Tech.
I went ahead and did the leg work:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/05/nation/la-na-gas-shortage-20110205
This one is straight from the NM National Guard Minuteman magazine:
http://ebooks.aqppublishing.com/archive/national_guard/archived/NMMinuteman/201104_NMMinuteman_Spring.pdf
I went ahead and did the leg work:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/05/nation/la-na-gas-shortage-20110205
This one is straight from the NM National Guard Minuteman magazine:
http://ebooks.aqppublishing.com/archive/national_guard/archived/NMMinuteman/201104_NMMinuteman_Spring.pdf
30,000 homes in New Mexico lose gas service
As New Mexico endured record cold — two mountain towns hit 36 degrees below zero — natural gas service to about 30,000 homes across a large swath of the state was cut off after suppliers in West...
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WOW, lots of vitrol against the instructor here. Whether you like it or not, when you put on that uniform, you represent your service (goes for everyone here, not just the OP). You are EXPECTED to present yourself in a professional manner (that is what we get paid for) and, I'm sorry to say, when you arrive to give a presentation in your work uniform, you do NOT present a professional picture of the military. Sorry, but them's the facts. Like I stated in a comment to 2LT John Ivester's response, take the time to make yourself presentable. Have clothing to change into on the evenings you have class and work it out with your supervisor to take a few minutes to change.
And just for the record, a polo and a pair of khakis will go a long way in presenting a "professional" appearance. And yes, I would have docked points for someone in a work uniform as well.
And just for the record, a polo and a pair of khakis will go a long way in presenting a "professional" appearance. And yes, I would have docked points for someone in a work uniform as well.
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Wait, SGT Juan De lid Santos, you were in your ASU or ACU? That makes a big difference, if business attire was required.
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Depends on the uniform you were in and whether or not this was PME or civilian.
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