Posted on Oct 7, 2019
Soldiers aren’t allowed to carry umbrellas when in OCP, but can they stand under them?
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I’m currently in Army ROTC. We had a PT test this morning in the rain, which is cool and all. But afterwards, walking back to my dorm and passing people with their umbrellas made me a little envious. It got me thinking, for fun, is there a possible loophole to that rule? I don’t intend on actually using it anytime soon, but I am curious.
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Army Regulations
ROTC Army Regulations
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 18
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I would say that it would violate the spirit of the regulation. Second, Don't be "That Guy" , no one like someone who looks for loopholes. Just friendly advice : )
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In my personal opinion, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with finding loopholes. Using them, however, is a different story. I would never attempt that because generally loopholes in the military don’t mean crap. I’d still get smoked for it.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
(Join to see) - cool beans. Just saying that it is frowned upon. that is all : )
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I don’t really mean to. Curiosity combined with a programmers mindset just ends up in me noticing discrepancies or looking for “easier ways.” As I said elsewhere though, I wouldn’t ever dare attempt to use the loopholes. In a sense, finding loopholes is my way of better understanding something.
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SFC Danny Watkins
ADVICE FROM OLD SOLDIER: I know you are a programmer. The rest of us are not. A loophole can get a combat soldier killed. Thats why we don't shortcut. Keep going, you will do fine. Listen to your NCOs. Focus.
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Standing under a robotic or drone powered umbrella is clearly within regs and i highly encourage you to develop such a system.
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Welcome to the army where the general rule of thumb is that regulation trumps common sense. And don’t look for loopholes. You don’t want to be that guy.
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The "umbrella rule" varies among the Services. Often a source of humor between me and my Army friends. Actually, I think the Army has it correct. The umbrella really doesn't do that much to keep you dry. It's entirely ineffective in a hard rain and a good gust of wind can turn it inside out or destroy it completely. All in all a good rain coat, which all of the Services have as part of their Service Uniform, or rain gear, which may be part of the work or combat uniform, provides much better protection. If you're already wet in you PT uniform, it really doesn't matter.
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I'm speaking to anecdote, but I always considered it part of the "mystique" of the uniform that we do not use umbrellas...ever. In the field, there is gear designed for this purpose. In dress uniform, there are prescribed forms of rain gear, specific to each service. That being said, there's potentially nothing so absolutely "BA" as seeing a service member standing rigidly attention in the middle of a full downpour during a ceremony...as if he just simply doesn't give a rat's @$$ to give the rain the time of day.
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LCDR Joshua Gillespie
A Bridge Too Far - The German "Surrender"
The British reject a German call for surrender as only the British can. From the film "A Bridge Too Far"
However- this gent gets a pass LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Li65P_3lvM
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Ya know, I've been hearing about that old chestnut for years, honest...I'd read about it in the USAF Officer's Guide by Stackpole Books ages ago, honest...I did find your mentioning it, for that very reason, interesting, certainly, if nothing else....
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(Join to see) oh wow! I never knew we couldn’t use umbrellas! It didn’t occur to me to ask because I simply run from point A to point B, been doing it since I was little. Umbrellas break so easily and my parents couldn’t afford new ones all the time. Besides, it’s only water. Try being soaking wet from head to toe after putting up tents in the rain (yes officers who still get their hands dirty do exist lol), then go brief your commander in a cold room. I must have bit my lip at least three times.
The military is awkward about changing the rules. I was shocked when I saw pictures of servicemen overseas with full beards. I’m sure there’s a policy that grants permission because I don’t remember reading it in the reg. I’ve also seen a lot of females with their hair laying passed their collar. It’s hard to correct people when you visit places because you don’t know who changed the standard through policies. Remember, the reg is a guide. Commanders make changes at their discretion.
My recommendation...if they don’t issue it, you can’t use it at all, even if someone else is operating it.
I challenge you to educate yourself on female appearance. So many male leaders don’t know the standards for female appearance. They rely on their female leaders to make corrections but you may not always have one to help you out. Never talk to a female alone when correcting her.
Good luck!
The military is awkward about changing the rules. I was shocked when I saw pictures of servicemen overseas with full beards. I’m sure there’s a policy that grants permission because I don’t remember reading it in the reg. I’ve also seen a lot of females with their hair laying passed their collar. It’s hard to correct people when you visit places because you don’t know who changed the standard through policies. Remember, the reg is a guide. Commanders make changes at their discretion.
My recommendation...if they don’t issue it, you can’t use it at all, even if someone else is operating it.
I challenge you to educate yourself on female appearance. So many male leaders don’t know the standards for female appearance. They rely on their female leaders to make corrections but you may not always have one to help you out. Never talk to a female alone when correcting her.
Good luck!
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Solid advice! I wasn’t quite aware that Commanders could change the rules but that does make sense.
I hate referencing JROTC but the part about knowing female regs does ring a bell from high school. As the Cadet XO, I used to always have to consult my female Cadet CSM on the proper wear of the female uniform. Most of the time it was fine, but during parades when an immediate answer is best, I found myself thinking I should learn those female regs. I’ll make sure to not make that mistake in the coming years.
Also sound advice on never being alone with a random soldier of opposite gender, period, especially as an officer.
I hate referencing JROTC but the part about knowing female regs does ring a bell from high school. As the Cadet XO, I used to always have to consult my female Cadet CSM on the proper wear of the female uniform. Most of the time it was fine, but during parades when an immediate answer is best, I found myself thinking I should learn those female regs. I’ll make sure to not make that mistake in the coming years.
Also sound advice on never being alone with a random soldier of opposite gender, period, especially as an officer.
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MAJ Monique Salinas
(Join to see) Always ask for help but listen, take notes, and learn it. The more you absorb and apply will set you apart. A lot of what I learned was when I was a junior enlisted. I stuck my nose in supply, training, recruiting, planning, operations,...when I became a company commander, my leaders were impressed with how much I knew about the standards for each. Good thing for me the standards didn’t deviate too much in 7 years. Use your junior years to learn what you can, keep open minded, and go above and beyond to educate yourself (talk to SMEs and ask questions). If you think a task will take you 20 mins to complete, I can tell you why it may take you 2 days. Of course, that’s if you want to do it the right way and set your commander up for success. You must anticipate what your commander needs to know while answering his or her questions (even if he or she doesn’t know what he or she should be asking). When your commander asks, “what are you saying?” Or “what does this mean?” Or “what do I need to tell higher?” Always say “Sir/Ma’am, I recommend...” which presents yourself as an advisor to be helpful and respecting that it’s ultimately his or her decision. Keep the word “you” out of the sentence. don’t say “you should/can/might want to...” or “Tell them...” which may imply that you are questioning his or her ability to make decisions. You don’t want to do that, especially in front of the staff. Just a few tips.
If you want to be the best leader for your Soldiers, never stop learning and know what kind of leader they need. How your section, platoon or company operates will tell you what kind of leader they need to be successful. Don’t depend on one style of leadership.
If you want to be the best leader for your Soldiers, never stop learning and know what kind of leader they need. How your section, platoon or company operates will tell you what kind of leader they need to be successful. Don’t depend on one style of leadership.
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