Some blame guns, some blame Islam. Why is there not more discussion on the mentally ill?

Cpl Justin Goolsby Sad but true.

SSgt (Join to see) I am not arguing that there is not absolute case of terrorism, only that that is not the sole motivation. you need to understand that some people are just effing crazy as was the majority of the cases that I outlined.

MSgt James Mullis - I am not denying the existence of terrorists only that the binary option of it either is or isn't is a false choice.

I'm not sure we should be focusing on the Muslim religion and terror. After all, the government of the US of A recently killed 100,000 in Iraq who never did attack the USA, and tortured and imprisoned another 100,000, and operates killer drones in a dozen sovereign countries without their permission (which is kind of terroristic, don't you think?). If we are a Christian country who follows the Christian God, then one could argue that the Christian caliphate in the Pentagon is just as evil as ISIS. So I wonder if the "Muslims kill" argument is really the right way to go.

Capt Michael Greene - I agree to a point, we should focus our efforts on actual terrorists. However, the last I heard there were no terrorist shootings/bombings in America, being committed by Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, Jewish, or even Catholics, shouting "Praise God" while killing innocent people, then committing suicide. So the monitoring of these churches would be a waste of our limited resources.

As for our pointless efforts to create an Arab Spring and free the Muslim world from its Dictatorial oppressors. That has been a complete failure and has resulted in huge numbers of dead and suffering for folks in the Middle east, of all religions, and it should be stopped immediately. Unfortunately, this was a high note of Hillary Clinton's time as Secretary of State and she will likely re-double our efforts if she is elected President.

To your point ref denying firearms to Muslims or criminals ... So my old Motor SGT and friend who is a Nationalized Citizen from Kenya, who's been of 3 tours to Iraq, a decorated brother veteran ... He would not be allowed because of his religion and his past 25 years of service to our country mean nothing? Ya, I can't by into that.

I do however join you in the hand ringing about the mentally ill and their due process.

So we make treatment easier to obtain and attempt to reduce the stigma for individuals who need help. The shootings are the result of untreated mental illness. Not because an individual is Muslim. It's because there is something in their head that thinks taking another's life is a logically justifiable decision. No I don't believe that you give guns to people who are mentally ill, however, if they have truly decided that they must kill an individual or group of individuals, denying access to a gun will not stop them, it would just change the means by which they carry out the act. Mental health is the cause, and that's what we need to address.

MSG (Join to see) Fair point about Muslims, especially Muslims who have served this country in the armed forces, but I think you missed what I was saying. Allow me to rephrase.

Nobody should be allowed to shoot up crowds.

I think we can all agree on that, right? It's a laudable goal. But we already have laws to prevent it, and they haven't prevented it. The problem as I see it is it's impossible to prevent, and therefore people who want to preempt such occurrences either don't realize they are impossible to prevent, and/or don't care what draconian measures are required or whose rights get stepped on in the process.

In my opinion, the paradigm needs to shift. Asking how to stop mass shootings from starting is unrealistic. Instead, the question should be how to stop them quickly once they start. How do we limit the casualties? The current method preferred by those who wish to prevent mass shootings from happening is to call the police and wait until they arrive. (At least, that's the method they recommend. In practice however, those who want to prevent shootings, and who are in a position to actually try to make that happen by passing laws, have people in close proximity who have the same tool the police will use to stop an ongoing shooting -- a gun. Apparently, in their minds, they are more deserving of immediate protection of their persons than anyone else.) I disagree.

The wait time for cops to arrive is interminable for those getting shot at. We need response times that are closer to 10 seconds than 10 minutes. And the only way for that to happen is to get more guns into the hands of more people who are qualified and trustworthy.

SSgt Christopher Brose - On another post, an RP member asked if bum rushing would be appropriate. If you have no other options then I agree though it would take a concerted effort of many and unfortunately, the majority of people don't have that mindset of assaulting through the ambush. Waiting for cops without a manner to fend off the attacker is just waiting to die.

PO3 Sandra Gomke, SSgt Robert Marx The self-loathing homosexual Muslim theory is gaining traction I hear. Here's an interesting quandary.

1. Following his religious tenants requires him to look upon homosexuality as an abhorration and blah blah blah ... kill kill kill.
2. So Political Correctness dictates that homosexuality is not a mental illness contrary to pre-1970's (or 80's ... 90's?) psychology.
3. Self-loathing is a mental anguish that could result in what we used to call a significant emotional event.

Could one therefore argue that Islam is to blame then?

MSG (Join to see) - I don't think homosexuality is an illness. I don't think all Islam is about killing. But the combination most certainly led to mental illness.

PO3 Sandra Gomke - RE: homosexuality as a mental illness ... note, that was pre-1970's (or 80's ... 90's?) psychology. So no, I am not saying it is, only that at one time it was labeled and considered as such.

With all these factors, I don't think we can absolutely say Mental Illness OR Islam OR Homophobia OR gun availability. The ultimate cause was one man's disregard for human life.

PO2 (Join to see) Could absolutely be both guns and Muslim extremist. Could also be a mentally ill, Muslim extremist with guns. My thing is that the Left only focuses on Guns, the Right focuses on the Muslim extremists and in the meantime between 1984 till last Sunday the US has had 363 killed and 374 wounded mostly by the mentally ill or people experiencing a severe emotional downturn going on shooting sprees.
Number from Muslim extremists going on shooting sprees ... 281 killed and 264 wounded.

1SG(P) (Join to see) True, but that accounts for 82 deaths and 264 wounded in the US. It doesn't take into account the 363 deaths and 374 wounded at the hands of the mentally ill, emotionally disturbed or others since 1984.