Posted on Jun 14, 2016
Some blame guns, some blame Islam. Why is there not more discussion on the mentally ill?
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It's like the old Miller Lite "Taste Great / Less Filling" ad campaign but now it's "Guns bad / Muslims bad". The media often touches on the fact that family and friends reported mental illness but then that's as far as it goes.
Terrorism
Gun Control
Mental Health
Islam
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 17
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If you were bullied and starved and beaten and occasionally raped and only allowed to learn from one book your whole life, would you be more or less likely to be in full control of your faculties? Most of the Radical Islamic Terrorists (RIT) were made into bad guys. They weren't born bad guys, but now they ARE bad guys, unfortunately. So we need to treat them like evil, criminal, thugs (bad guys). Sorry. And if you had all the rights and privileges and wealth and education as an American citizen, and you STILL became a RIT, then not sorry.
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MSG (Join to see)
Granted and I couldn't give a rat's ass about the guy. To me, he's in the Muslim terrorist column. Nor do I care how they became bad guys, only that they are the bad guys. Now, how does that address the other 281 murders and 264 wounded from bat shit crazy people going on killing sprees since 1984?
1984 - 21 killed, 19 wounded: San Ysidro, Calif
1986-14 killed, 6 wounded: Edmond, Okla.
1989-5 killed, 29 injured; Stockton, Calif.
1990-10 killed, 4 wounded: Jacksonville, Fla.
1991-22 killed, 20 wounded: Killeen, Texas
1991-4 killed, 2 injured: Iowa City, Iowa
1992-4 killed, 10 wounded: Olivehurst, Calif.
1993-8 killed, 6 injured: San Francisco
1993-6 killed, 19 injured: Garden City, N.Y
1998-5 killed, 10 injured: Jonesboro, Ark.
1999-13 killed, 24 injured: Columbine, Colo
1999-9 killed, 12 injured: Atlanta
1999-7 killed, 7 injured: Fort Worth
1999-7 killed: Honolulu
2000-7 killed: Wakefield, Mass.
2001-2 killed, 13 injured: Santee, Calif.
2002-3 killed: Tucson
2003-5 killed, 9 injured: Meridian, Miss.
2005-9 killed, 7 injured: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn.
2006-6 dead | Goleta, Calif.
2006-5 killed, 5 injured: Nickel Mines, Pa.(Bosnian Muslim however, investigators could not show a link to religious ideology).
2007-32 killed, 17 injured: Blacksburg, Va.
2007-8 killed, 4 injured: Omaha
2008-5 killed, 16 injured: Dekalb, Ill.
2009-13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, N.Y.
2010-3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala.
2010-8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, Conn.
2011-6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz.
2011-8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif.
2012-7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland
2012-12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, Colo.
2012-6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, Wis.
2012-6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, Minn.
2012-3 dead, 4 injured: Brookfield, Wis.
2012-27 killed, one injured: Newtown, Conn.
2013-5 killed: Santa Monica
2013-12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C.
2014-3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas
2014-6 dead, 7 wounded: Isla Vista, Calif.
2015-9 dead: Charleston, S.C.
2015-9 dead, 9 injured: Roseburg, Ore.
2015-3 dead, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, Colo.
============================================
2009-13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas - Muslim Terrorist
2015-5 dead, 3 wounded: Chattanooga, Tenn. - Muslim Terrorist
2015-14 dead, 22 wounded: San Bernardino, Calif. - Muslim Terrorists
2016-50 killed, 53 injured in Orlando nightclub shooting. - Muslim Terrorist
NOTE: Boston bombers not listed because not a shooting spree.
Total:
Other terrorist - 363 Killed / 374 Wounded
Muslim Terrorist - 82 Killed / 110 Wounded
Source: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
1984 - 21 killed, 19 wounded: San Ysidro, Calif
1986-14 killed, 6 wounded: Edmond, Okla.
1989-5 killed, 29 injured; Stockton, Calif.
1990-10 killed, 4 wounded: Jacksonville, Fla.
1991-22 killed, 20 wounded: Killeen, Texas
1991-4 killed, 2 injured: Iowa City, Iowa
1992-4 killed, 10 wounded: Olivehurst, Calif.
1993-8 killed, 6 injured: San Francisco
1993-6 killed, 19 injured: Garden City, N.Y
1998-5 killed, 10 injured: Jonesboro, Ark.
1999-13 killed, 24 injured: Columbine, Colo
1999-9 killed, 12 injured: Atlanta
1999-7 killed, 7 injured: Fort Worth
1999-7 killed: Honolulu
2000-7 killed: Wakefield, Mass.
2001-2 killed, 13 injured: Santee, Calif.
2002-3 killed: Tucson
2003-5 killed, 9 injured: Meridian, Miss.
2005-9 killed, 7 injured: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn.
2006-6 dead | Goleta, Calif.
2006-5 killed, 5 injured: Nickel Mines, Pa.(Bosnian Muslim however, investigators could not show a link to religious ideology).
2007-32 killed, 17 injured: Blacksburg, Va.
2007-8 killed, 4 injured: Omaha
2008-5 killed, 16 injured: Dekalb, Ill.
2009-13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, N.Y.
2010-3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala.
2010-8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, Conn.
2011-6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz.
2011-8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif.
2012-7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland
2012-12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, Colo.
2012-6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, Wis.
2012-6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, Minn.
2012-3 dead, 4 injured: Brookfield, Wis.
2012-27 killed, one injured: Newtown, Conn.
2013-5 killed: Santa Monica
2013-12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C.
2014-3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas
2014-6 dead, 7 wounded: Isla Vista, Calif.
2015-9 dead: Charleston, S.C.
2015-9 dead, 9 injured: Roseburg, Ore.
2015-3 dead, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, Colo.
============================================
2009-13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas - Muslim Terrorist
2015-5 dead, 3 wounded: Chattanooga, Tenn. - Muslim Terrorist
2015-14 dead, 22 wounded: San Bernardino, Calif. - Muslim Terrorists
2016-50 killed, 53 injured in Orlando nightclub shooting. - Muslim Terrorist
NOTE: Boston bombers not listed because not a shooting spree.
Total:
Other terrorist - 363 Killed / 374 Wounded
Muslim Terrorist - 82 Killed / 110 Wounded
Source: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
Deadliest U.S. mass shootings,1984-2016
Here are some of the most notable mass shootings in the U.S. in recent decades.
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG Christopher Chouinard - He's ordered the lowering of our flag, called for more useless gun control measures and in general ... Bored the living hell out of me.
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MSG (Join to see)
MSG Christopher Chouinard - Pure pandering symbolic Nothing Sandwich to show how sensitive we are. The one time State honorary symbol of respect has since been relegated to the Nation's official group hug.
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MSG (Join to see)
PVT James Strait - So I ask that because I believe that my savior was crucified and rose from the dead and after descending into Hell rose to Heaven. I partake in a ceremony where I eat the body and drink the blood of my savior. Before being engaged in and and while in a firefight, I prayed to my God to deliver me from death but if it were his will (inshallah) I had resigned myself to my fate.
So again, as I am a Christian, would you say I am mentally ill?
Atheists ... Don't bother answering, I know where you stand as a former Atheist myself.
So again, as I am a Christian, would you say I am mentally ill?
Atheists ... Don't bother answering, I know where you stand as a former Atheist myself.
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MSG (Join to see)
PVT James Strait "It's the literalists that are insane." So then Islam is not mental illness? If that's what you believe, then we are in agreement.
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Capt Michael Greene
You may have a point there, Chief. Obviously the Christians should be able to pick who is godly and who is not. And since they are the newest Christians with the most recent update from God, I think the Mormons are the only true Christian religion. Can we all agree that God lives on the planet Kolob?
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC Bernard Walko No. I am providing a rather extensive list of facts that you don't agree with and I guess you are dismissing them outright without doing the research.
The overwhelming number of mass shootings were perpetrated by someone mentally ill or under some type of emotional distress.
The overwhelming number were NOT Muslims.
The overwhelming number were white American males.
So here's the hard truth ... I have more to fear from a crazy white American male than a Muslim terrorist. You can disagree but the numbers show it. And by the way ... I don't fear either.
The overwhelming number of mass shootings were perpetrated by someone mentally ill or under some type of emotional distress.
The overwhelming number were NOT Muslims.
The overwhelming number were white American males.
So here's the hard truth ... I have more to fear from a crazy white American male than a Muslim terrorist. You can disagree but the numbers show it. And by the way ... I don't fear either.
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MSG (Join to see)
SGT Damaso V Santana - Thanks brother. I think some people are getting bent out of shape because they believe that I'm denying Muslim Terrorism. Not true ... Just not all the time.
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MSG (Join to see)
I'm a bit torn on this. On one hand I could view this as a specious statement as we won't really know anymore than I truly know how truly effective my "Yeti Free Zone" signs are working. On the other hand, if we extrapolate the numbers proportionately of the increased numbers of Muslim males in their late teens to late 30's your with an average number killed amongst all the Muslim terrorists, one might be able to get an idea but that's assuming all things will be equal all around.
Honestly ... SFC Bernard Walko I don't know what the future will bring from the influx but if we look at the attacks in Europe, it does not bode well for us.
Honestly ... SFC Bernard Walko I don't know what the future will bring from the influx but if we look at the attacks in Europe, it does not bode well for us.
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Mental illness doesn't fit in base political agenda right now. The candidates or the news. Wait until after the election and mental illness will become the Hot Topic of Shooters like this again
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Blame Islam? Are you nuts? (Oh, that's where the mental illness comes in. There's obviously something wrong with you since you can't seem to remember that blaming Islam is a violation of political correctness)
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MSG (Join to see)
CPT Jack Durish I'll blame Muslim terrorist when appropriate. San Bernardino, Ft Hood and Orlando ... yes. But I'm not up for witch hunts lest we burn at the stake innocents.
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No one wants to talk mental illness for a couple of reasons. 1. It has been viewed so badly than no one wants to be associated with anyone mentally ill - certainly not my friends and family. 2. It is just too scary that I might be mentally ill. 3. If I am I fear that there is nothing that I can do about it. etc. etc.
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Capt (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - Oh I agree. My comments were meant to say that people are either very reluctant to talk or totally unwilling to do so.
That is what will prevent things from happening. You see it never has or will happen with me or my family.
That is what we must change. We must recognize mental illness to be the same as physical illness.
That is what will prevent things from happening. You see it never has or will happen with me or my family.
That is what we must change. We must recognize mental illness to be the same as physical illness.
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MSG (Join to see)
Capt (Join to see) The world has come along way in the manner we look at mental illness. But as you say, We must recognize mental illness to be the same as physical illness. It is difficult for people because they don't see blood and therefore can't grasp that that person is hurt.
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Capt (Join to see)
And trust me on this one. Things can get very scary when you do try to seek help.
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Capt Michael Greene
The assassins who targeted all those abortion clinics and abortion doctors--do you think they were mentally ill, or just pushed by the Army of God (a real organization) to do the work of the Almighty?
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I would rather talk about the morally ill. Something has happened with the moral foundation of our society to make some people think killing, wounding, or maiming is a morally acceptable solution to adversity.
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MSG (Join to see)
SSG Trevor S. Great point but how many of those are there? Columbine, the 2 boys in Arkansas ...I'm sure there are several more but how many in compared to the mentally ill?
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SSG Trevor S.
MSG (Join to see) - How many are mentally ill? Or is it the current state of the country to label them so as a form of post event coddling?
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The keywords in the second amendment are WELL REGULATED! But it is those two words that people who say they have a "right" to have weapons refused to talk about. I tend to think it means there must be oversight of who gets them, when they get them, when they can used them. It does not mean every tom, dick and jane gets to have one! So more guns is not the answer! The answer is to take them away from criminals, assholes with temper and mental problems, over emotional uncivilized unlearnt low class useless eaters.
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SPC Deon Holmes
Capt Michael Greene - Your strawman is created when you are born and given a birth certificate with your name in all caps MICHAEL GREENE. It's you as a corporation and it's how you do contract business with other corporations. When you get your mail it's in all caps, your checks from uncle sammy, in all caps. This name is just like yours, but's it's not really you. This is something most Americans are not even aware of. It gets much deeper than what I've said here, but understand it's corporate and maritime law you're dealing with. In regards to civil and constitutional rights, the strawman really has none because it's a fictitious entity. We answer for it because we are trained to think that name is the same as the human being, and it's really not.
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Capt Michael Greene
SPC Deon Holmes Politely, and with respect, I think you might have some paranoia going on. Ask your doctor.
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Undiagnosed mental illness is a real problem in the country especially among our veteran population. Not to mention most of these medications have rather violent side effects. I think this topic deserves some credence. not every gun owner/ Muslim shoots people. Maybe if we heard more about any of the past shooters states of mind we might gain some insights. The Boston bomber, the theater shooter...what happened to these guys? What's their state of mind? mentally illness is down played because you can't politicize it. Then you gotta fix the problem...
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MSG (Join to see)
MSgt Michelle Mondia Here are the numbers and the link to the source at the bottom from Active Shooter killing sprees 1984 up to Orlando. The Boston Bomber numbers are not included because the discussion was germane to Gun Control, Muslim Terrorists and the mentally ill.
The Muslim Terrorist attacks are listed at the bottom. The mentally ill, Christian Terrorists and others listed immediately below. (NOTE: Christian Terrorists are lumped in because at the time I was arguing that it's not all about guns nor Muslim Terrorist and didn't think to separate them as a different category, which in retrospect I should have.)
1984 - 21 killed, 19 wounded: San Ysidro, Calif
1986-14 killed, 6 wounded: Edmond, Okla.
1989-5 killed, 29 injured; Stockton, Calif.
1990-10 killed, 4 wounded: Jacksonville, Fla.
1991-22 killed, 20 wounded: Killeen, Texas
1991-4 killed, 2 injured: Iowa City, Iowa
1992-4 killed, 10 wounded: Olivehurst, Calif.
1993-8 killed, 6 injured: San Francisco
1993-6 killed, 19 injured: Garden City, N.Y
1998-5 killed, 10 injured: Jonesboro, Ark.
1999-13 killed, 24 injured: Columbine, Colo
1999-9 killed, 12 injured: Atlanta
1999-7 killed, 7 injured: Fort Worth
1999-7 killed: Honolulu
2000-7 killed: Wakefield, Mass.
2001-2 killed, 13 injured: Santee, Calif.
2002-3 killed: Tucson
2003-5 killed, 9 injured: Meridian, Miss.
2005-9 killed, 7 injured: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn.
2006-6 dead | Goleta, Calif.
2006-5 killed, 5 injured: Nickel Mines, Pa.(Bosnian Muslim however, investigators could not show a link to religious ideology).
2007-32 killed, 17 injured: Blacksburg, Va.
2007-8 killed, 4 injured: Omaha
2008-5 killed, 16 injured: Dekalb, Ill.
2009-13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, N.Y.
2010-3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala.
2010-8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, Conn.
2011-6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz.
2011-8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif.
2012-7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland
2012-12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, Colo.
2012-6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, Wis.
2012-6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, Minn.
2012-3 dead, 4 injured: Brookfield, Wis.
2012-27 killed, one injured: Newtown, Conn.
2013-5 killed: Santa Monica
2013-12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C.
2014-3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas
2014-6 dead, 7 wounded: Isla Vista, Calif.
2015-9 dead: Charleston, S.C.
2015-9 dead, 9 injured: Roseburg, Ore.
2015-3 dead, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, Colo.
============================================
2009-13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas - Muslim Terrorist
2015-5 dead, 3 wounded: Chattanooga, Tenn. - Muslim Terrorist
2015-14 dead, 22 wounded: San Bernardino, Calif. - Muslim Terrorists
2016-50 killed, 53 injured in Orlando nightclub shooting. - Muslim Terrorist
NOTE: Boston bombers not listed because not a shooting spree.
Total:
Other terrorist - 363 Killed / 374 Wounded
Muslim Terrorist - 82 Killed / 110 Wounded
Source: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
The Muslim Terrorist attacks are listed at the bottom. The mentally ill, Christian Terrorists and others listed immediately below. (NOTE: Christian Terrorists are lumped in because at the time I was arguing that it's not all about guns nor Muslim Terrorist and didn't think to separate them as a different category, which in retrospect I should have.)
1984 - 21 killed, 19 wounded: San Ysidro, Calif
1986-14 killed, 6 wounded: Edmond, Okla.
1989-5 killed, 29 injured; Stockton, Calif.
1990-10 killed, 4 wounded: Jacksonville, Fla.
1991-22 killed, 20 wounded: Killeen, Texas
1991-4 killed, 2 injured: Iowa City, Iowa
1992-4 killed, 10 wounded: Olivehurst, Calif.
1993-8 killed, 6 injured: San Francisco
1993-6 killed, 19 injured: Garden City, N.Y
1998-5 killed, 10 injured: Jonesboro, Ark.
1999-13 killed, 24 injured: Columbine, Colo
1999-9 killed, 12 injured: Atlanta
1999-7 killed, 7 injured: Fort Worth
1999-7 killed: Honolulu
2000-7 killed: Wakefield, Mass.
2001-2 killed, 13 injured: Santee, Calif.
2002-3 killed: Tucson
2003-5 killed, 9 injured: Meridian, Miss.
2005-9 killed, 7 injured: Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn.
2006-6 dead | Goleta, Calif.
2006-5 killed, 5 injured: Nickel Mines, Pa.(Bosnian Muslim however, investigators could not show a link to religious ideology).
2007-32 killed, 17 injured: Blacksburg, Va.
2007-8 killed, 4 injured: Omaha
2008-5 killed, 16 injured: Dekalb, Ill.
2009-13 killed, 4 injured: Binghamton, N.Y.
2010-3 killed, 3 wounded: Huntsville, Ala.
2010-8 killed, 2 injured: Manchester, Conn.
2011-6 killed, 11 injured: Tucson, Ariz.
2011-8 killed, 1 injured: Seal Beach, Calif.
2012-7 killed, 3 injured: Oakland
2012-12 killed, 58 injured: Aurora, Colo.
2012-6 killed, 3 injured: Oak Creek, Wis.
2012-6 killed, 2 injured: Minneapolis, Minn.
2012-3 dead, 4 injured: Brookfield, Wis.
2012-27 killed, one injured: Newtown, Conn.
2013-5 killed: Santa Monica
2013-12 killed, 3 injured: Washington, D.C.
2014-3 killed; 16 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas
2014-6 dead, 7 wounded: Isla Vista, Calif.
2015-9 dead: Charleston, S.C.
2015-9 dead, 9 injured: Roseburg, Ore.
2015-3 dead, 9 injured: Colorado Springs, Colo.
============================================
2009-13 killed, 32 injured: Ft. Hood, Texas - Muslim Terrorist
2015-5 dead, 3 wounded: Chattanooga, Tenn. - Muslim Terrorist
2015-14 dead, 22 wounded: San Bernardino, Calif. - Muslim Terrorists
2016-50 killed, 53 injured in Orlando nightclub shooting. - Muslim Terrorist
NOTE: Boston bombers not listed because not a shooting spree.
Total:
Other terrorist - 363 Killed / 374 Wounded
Muslim Terrorist - 82 Killed / 110 Wounded
Source: http://timelines.latimes.com/deadliest-shooting-rampages/
Deadliest U.S. mass shootings,1984-2016
Here are some of the most notable mass shootings in the U.S. in recent decades.
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MSgt Michelle Mondia
MSG (Join to see) - These numbers are pretty sobering. There's something else at work here besides beliefs and wepons.
https://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/18/with-49-million-americans-on-psychiatric-drugs-renowned-psychiatrist-issues-call-for-psychiatric-drug-withdrawal/
https://www.cchrint.org/2012/07/18/with-49-million-americans-on-psychiatric-drugs-renowned-psychiatrist-issues-call-for-psychiatric-drug-withdrawal/
With 49 Million Americans on Psychiatric Drugs — Renowned Psychiatrist Issues Call for...
Research shows long-term exposure to psychiatric drugs has proven to be far more dangerous than originally anticipated, and includes the threat of medication
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We used to have laws for involuntary commitment, but in the interest of upholding civil rights, we've defunded asylums and stigmatized commitment of the mentally ill. This is why the homeless are disproportionately composed of the mentally ill and why we have so many issues with mentally unstable people committing crimes. There's historically been abuses whereby sane people would be placed in asylums and generally poor conditions which have not gone unnoticed by the public. This is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, but since conservatives often are too busy defending the 2nd amendment from liberals and liberals are extremely concerned with infringements on people's civil rights , the argument for addressing this issue gets lost in the din. How many people of low intellect do you see making blanket statements about guns every time some atrocity happens? They never delve into the mentally ill criminal, they just note that he was sick in the head and move on, assuming that nothing could be done to alleviate that fact.
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MSG (Join to see)
Capt (Join to see) "they just note that he was sick in the head and move on," Exactly! It seems interview from someone who knew the shooter seem to be reading off the same script speaking about how the shooter was "seemed off", "was violent", "mentally disturbed".
The defunding of the asylums and efforts to protect the Rights of the mentally ill definitely followed the law of unintended consequences.
The defunding of the asylums and efforts to protect the Rights of the mentally ill definitely followed the law of unintended consequences.
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