Posted on Feb 5, 2020
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Donald Trump's entire 2019 State of the Union address | Full speech on CNN
President Donald Trump appeared before a divided Congress for the first time to appeal to lawmakers' sense of unity at a moment of deepening partisan spite. ...
Post Update (20 Feb 2020): I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments!
FREE SPEECH is NOT Dead or at best NOT YET Illegal!!! Adults are responding in this post - EXCELLENT! Some are whining! ~2/3's overall per the poll still believe SOTH was disrespectful at some level.
POTUS did have a bit of a chip on his shoulder, for not shaking SOTH hand when extended.
Some seemed to forget former President Clinton's own avoidance of military service (aka deferments) as they excoriated Trump for his deferments - Humm?
The Congress & POTUS need to quit excessive Tweeting and GET TO WORK for "We the people...." Cut the BS!!!
All in All , instructive post! Of course some will defend POTUS regardless, others will defend SOTH regardless.
Some of the adults that responded slammed them both and provided balanced responses that took a deeper critical look! You know who you are! Thank you!
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Post Update (12 Feb 2020): Please see my response to SGM(P) (Join to see)'s wise words in this post! Some might just be - surprised!
------------------------------------------
Original Post
Background: By now the world is a buzz with what took place at the end of the SOTU by POTUS and the "ripping" by the SOTH at the end of the speech.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4FyVGtMa4s)
Discussion: While I can respect the opinion of Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia to recommend centure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPr2EodEAdU), I and many believe that the SOTH's behavior last night is worthy of the SOTH's own centure! The lack of leadership of the SOTH in the 'ripping up" of the SOTU address on live TV is shameful.
It makes NO different if you are RIGHT, CENTER or LEFT. The disrespect shown is not a sign of defiance of this POTUS or solidarity with her party. It is an open attack against "We the people....." As an Independent, I have not always agreed with POTUS on some issues, but that does not mean I will not show the Office of POTUS its proper due, regardless of who hold the office!
I have as does the SOTH the right to "respectfully disagree" as guaranteed under the 1st Amendment; however, as the SOTH the "ripping behavior" boarders on behaviors that reminds me of someone desiring to insight insurrection, but not be held accountable for the actions they transmit.
Recommendation: While the "majority members" of the House will not centure their own Speaker, perhaps the Senate might, in order to send a message to centure the SOTH for such a tantrum during the SOTU!
So my question is this:
Was the behavior of the SOTH a sign that the current SOTH as of Feb 2020 lacks both the maturity and leadership grit to behave in a manner worthy of that office as 3rd in line to be POTUS?
FREE SPEECH is NOT Dead or at best NOT YET Illegal!!! Adults are responding in this post - EXCELLENT! Some are whining! ~2/3's overall per the poll still believe SOTH was disrespectful at some level.
POTUS did have a bit of a chip on his shoulder, for not shaking SOTH hand when extended.
Some seemed to forget former President Clinton's own avoidance of military service (aka deferments) as they excoriated Trump for his deferments - Humm?
The Congress & POTUS need to quit excessive Tweeting and GET TO WORK for "We the people...." Cut the BS!!!
All in All , instructive post! Of course some will defend POTUS regardless, others will defend SOTH regardless.
Some of the adults that responded slammed them both and provided balanced responses that took a deeper critical look! You know who you are! Thank you!
----------------------------------
Post Update (12 Feb 2020): Please see my response to SGM(P) (Join to see)'s wise words in this post! Some might just be - surprised!
------------------------------------------
Original Post
Background: By now the world is a buzz with what took place at the end of the SOTU by POTUS and the "ripping" by the SOTH at the end of the speech.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4FyVGtMa4s)
Discussion: While I can respect the opinion of Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia to recommend centure (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPr2EodEAdU), I and many believe that the SOTH's behavior last night is worthy of the SOTH's own centure! The lack of leadership of the SOTH in the 'ripping up" of the SOTU address on live TV is shameful.
It makes NO different if you are RIGHT, CENTER or LEFT. The disrespect shown is not a sign of defiance of this POTUS or solidarity with her party. It is an open attack against "We the people....." As an Independent, I have not always agreed with POTUS on some issues, but that does not mean I will not show the Office of POTUS its proper due, regardless of who hold the office!
I have as does the SOTH the right to "respectfully disagree" as guaranteed under the 1st Amendment; however, as the SOTH the "ripping behavior" boarders on behaviors that reminds me of someone desiring to insight insurrection, but not be held accountable for the actions they transmit.
Recommendation: While the "majority members" of the House will not centure their own Speaker, perhaps the Senate might, in order to send a message to centure the SOTH for such a tantrum during the SOTU!
So my question is this:
Was the behavior of the SOTH a sign that the current SOTH as of Feb 2020 lacks both the maturity and leadership grit to behave in a manner worthy of that office as 3rd in line to be POTUS?
Posted in these groups: U.S. House of Representatives
Political Organization
Toxic LeadershipState of West Virginia
Fox News Channel
Political Organization Toxic LeadershipState of West Virginia Fox News Channel
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 71
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Didn't they censure that South Carolina Republican Congressman for yelling "you lie" when Obama said "if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it"? I think they did and, guess what, it actually was a lie. So, yes, she should be censured but, she won't be because the House is currently controlled by the democrats and, they refuse to hold their own accountable. They only want to get rid of the President because he's doing too good of a job.
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SFC Michael Peterson
PFC Ray Aquila, the house was controlled by the demonrats at the time. Otherwise, Obamacare would never have passed. Not a single republican voted for that travesty.
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SFC Michael Peterson
PFC Ray Aquila, I like the guy who isn't a socialist. I like the guy who isn't a former VP, who used his influence to get his coke-head son a job at a corrupt Ukrainian company and then, threatened to withhold $1 Billion in military aid. I like the guy who didn't lie about being a Native American to advance their education and career. I like the guy who doesn't want to abolish the Second Amendment, the Fourth Amendment, and ban the Big Gulp. So yeah, if you're still confused, I'll be voting for President Trump again.
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PVT William Smith
Wrong talking point. President Obama had just said 'the reforms I'm proposing will not apply to those who are here illegally'. Then Joe Wilson had a senior moment, miss-heard, or maybe performing for his people back in South Carolina. But on Sept 15, 2009 the House approved a 'Resolution of Disapproval'. Sounds like a little ol' pat on the hand. As it turned out, he was pelted with 'you lie' back home while speaking to one of his crowds. Just deserts, I would say.
But Palosi being left with her right hand extended and un-shook because of Trump displaying a juvenile snub. Some may believe that Trump needed more time than a second or three to recognize the hand pointed into his face was actually an invitation to commence the standard ritual of the State of the Union of shaking hands with the Speaker of the House, even if he didn't want to shake Pense's hand.
But Palosi being left with her right hand extended and un-shook because of Trump displaying a juvenile snub. Some may believe that Trump needed more time than a second or three to recognize the hand pointed into his face was actually an invitation to commence the standard ritual of the State of the Union of shaking hands with the Speaker of the House, even if he didn't want to shake Pense's hand.
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SFC Michael Peterson
PVT William Smith, so, maybe it was my senior moment. A lie about keeping your doctor or, a lie about Obamacare not applying to illegal aliens, what difference does it make? A lie is a lie. And, if someone was saying you're a liar and an all around piece of crap, on national TV, would you ceremoniously shake their hand? I certainly would not.
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Nancy's actions since she returned to the speaker's position is just another of a set of vivid examples of why the Washington establishment (both the left and right) is no longer capable and/or to be trusted to serve and protect a nation of truly free people. Donald J. Trump's often repeated promise to return power to the people and clean up the swamp is akin to a lighted match held above an open container of gasoline. What most politicians (specifically those elected to Congress) have never been willing to truly admit/comply is that they are not elected to be leaders. They are elected to represent/protect/serve us and to do our bidding. Problem confronting the politicians and bureaucrats today is Donald J. Trump has/is attempting to take the power they have enjoyed for most of the nation's history and return the same to the people. Suggest before all can be set right we the people may have to pick up a weapon and stand a post!
Soldier/Cop/Grunt.
PS Before Donald J. Trump came on the scene I had changed my signature block from my army rank, retired to Mercenary, Retired. Only when he made being a soldier, or a cop, or a grunt honorable again did I have the courage to honor my chosen professions again.
Soldier/Cop/Grunt.
PS Before Donald J. Trump came on the scene I had changed my signature block from my army rank, retired to Mercenary, Retired. Only when he made being a soldier, or a cop, or a grunt honorable again did I have the courage to honor my chosen professions again.
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PFC Ray Aquila
In no way was TSOH disrespectful to ORANGE IMPOTUS. Seeing the responses is beyond a doubt pure idiocy. Did any of you turn coats see Orange IMPOTUS SHAKE THE HAND OF TSOH.......NO!!!!!!
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
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PFC Ray Aquila
In no way was TSOH disrespectful to ORANGE IMPOTUS. Seeing the responses is beyond a doubt pure idiocy. Did any of you turn coats see Orange IMPOTUS SHAKE THE HAND OF TSOH.......NO!!!!!!
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
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SFC David Dean
Really. My question to you would be simple and straightforward. It is this; why did Pelosi choose to do what she did on the stage and in front of the cameras. She could of just as easily done it in private. No, she CHOSE to grandstand and it was done with the specific intention to demonstrate disrespect directed at the President. As I stated previously; childish and churlish temper tantrum that real adults would expect from a 4 year old and she then defends it by stating on camera "it was least offensive of acts I could do." Her words show just how correct the assessment of her dumb act really is. I will not address how incredibly stupid it is to demonstrate your child persona is for a person elected to serve the citizens of our country. She does have an inherent and actual implied duty and responsibility to be "representative" of the entire nation and not her particular political leanings, especially at this type of national event and audience. Your disagreement or lack of acknowledgement of her poor behavior does nothing to diminish her lack of deportment and inappropriate conduct. Whether or not she merits censure or not I would leave to her contemporaries discretion. Actually anyone with a conscious thought knows that since Democrats control the House that certainly would not be even a remote possibility.
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Pelosi committed a felony in front of millions of people.
The question appearing in the text box doesn't make sense.
The question appearing in the text box doesn't make sense.
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Capt Walter Miller
PO2 Philip Mayfield - How soon we forget. You ought to watch the movie "Vice." Not only is Christian Bale spectacular as Cheney, it lays out all the lies of the Bushies lying us into war against our own best interests.
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Capt Walter Miller
Vice (2018) - An American Menu - Restaurant Scene [HD] | Spotlight
Dick Cheney (Christian Bale) and his cohorts are presented with a unique selection of menu items at a restaurant in this scene from Vice directed by Adam McK...
PO2 Philip Mayfield - It's a great movie and cleverly done. At one point they have Cheney and some others in a fancy restaurant reading torture techniques off a fancy menu. They all had a big laugh over it.
The way the Bush Administration treated detainees was guaranteed to cause attacks on, and get Americans killed. It's almost as if that was the point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNdsAgHJzEk
The way the Bush Administration treated detainees was guaranteed to cause attacks on, and get Americans killed. It's almost as if that was the point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNdsAgHJzEk
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PVT William Smith
Sounds like many of you are captives of Rupert Murdock and do not make sense. I have been following this site for a month +/-, I have a life, I am so sorry for the majority of you who have missed or lost the ability to tell truth from fiction. I am head shaking sad.
Well, I hope the best for you. May you eventually open your eyes.
Adios amigos.
Well, I hope the best for you. May you eventually open your eyes.
Adios amigos.
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PFC Ray Aquila
In no way was TSOH disrespectful to ORANGE IMPOTUS. Seeing the responses is beyond a doubt pure idiocy. Did any of you turn coats see Orange IMPOTUS SHAKE THE HAND OF TSOH.......NO!!!!!!
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
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CW4 Bernard B.
PFC Ray Aquila Check fire, Ray. You responded to me, and lumped my in with the “you people” you are railing against. I said no, she should not be (censured). Try responding to the OP.
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PFC Ray Aquila
No disrespect. This was sent to many and some got sent to those in support of Nancy. My bad!
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The SOTH tried to be cordial and POTUS snubbed her. SOTH was try to be a bridge builder at least for the SOTU but was pretty much treated like someone who didn't matter. If we condone that sort of actions from the POTUS then why should we get our panties in a twist when the SOTH does something similar. I know I have seen people say she should be locked up for destruction of government property ut it was her copy of the speech not the official record copy.
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PFC Ray Aquila
In no way was TSOH disrespectful to ORANGE IMPOTUS. Seeing the responses is beyond a doubt pure idiocy. Did any of you turn coats see Orange IMPOTUS SHAKE THE HAND OF TSOH.......NO!!!!!!
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
THIS WAS MORE DISRESPECTFUL. A 5 time Draft Dodger and you people defend Mr Bone Spur. Mr Bone SPUR signed an executive order last Tuesday denying 200,000 jobs the Department of Veterans Affairs desperately is in need. This is an IMPOTUS stating in 2016. "VETERANS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION." This is the same Orange IMPOTUS, presented a BUDGET to the Congress last week with sizable cuts to Veterans, Disable, Seniors, SSA, Medicare, Medicaid. ORANGE IMPOTUS is still referring to SSA, Medicare, Medicaid as entitlements. People......We worked for those benefits. And you people are worried about lies being torn. By the by CPO Nate S. It is CENSURE. Next time leave the "T" out.
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SFC Regina Boyd
I don't hate tRump. I do, however, have an immense dislike for him. He's a draft dodger, he lies to the American people on a daily basis, he's inept, insecure, immature, and a con man. For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can defend this orange-painted pile of crap. But, to each, his own.
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SFC David Dean
So was Clinton, but everyone forgets that point. He dodged the draft whether you want to classify his actions in that manner or not irrelevant, its a fact. That aside if anyone has studied any history of Presidents you would do well to review it once more. If you conclude this action whereby the President deferred shaking the hand of a person in Congress who has at best been disrespectful and disdained him at every opportunity she has to speak, then you go on down that road. Reality check, if you take a moment and examine your own motivations you will conclude that given the animosity present between them, President Trump not shaking her hand is what all of us would have done too, if we are honest. President Andrew Jackson, U.S. Grant, Abraham Lincoln and others have had similar interactions with Congress. Perhaps had she not acted in the manner she did, it is quite possible Pelosi likely could have claimed the high road. Instead she acted poorly and is now reaping the criticism merited via her chosen actions.
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SFC Regina Boyd
LCpl Leo Morrissey - I don't like Trump. Besides, his orange color is sprayed on. Nice try, LCpl Leo Morrissey. I also don't have an issue with what I say or what I would do to anyone. "Hate" is a strong and powerful word in the English language and there is so much of it today. Yes, I have a very strong opinion of the sitting POTUS, but what's great about this GREAT nation is that I have the right to express my opinion without fear of reprisal or of being killed.
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Clinton got legit deferments. Cadet Bone Spurs got daddy to pay off a doctor to say he had bone spurs to get him out of it. BIG HUGE difference.
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What makes me shudder and go "Ugggggh" is the thought that there is a Mr Pelosi someplace.
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Precedent and context matters
Tar and Feathers in Revolutionary America
https://revolution.h-net.msu.edu/essays/irvin.feathers.html
In one sense, it was like a pro football game: the foul is frequently called on the player who throws “the second punch”.
Watch the first couple of minutes of these three State of the Union speeches and tell me if you see a difference.
SOTU 2018
https://youtu.be/53tqxdYlspg
SOTU 2019
https://youtu.be/w4FyVGtMa4s
SOTU 2020
https://youtu.be/zNECVmfJtxc
Also, consider the SOTU speeches of previous Presidents. (I’m talking about the few moments immediately after the President steps onto the dais.)
SOTU 2016
https://youtu.be/nyxP68SJYOc
SOTU 2015
https://youtu.be/cse5cCGuHmE
SOTU 2008
https://youtu.be/zYYSbhgztgg
SOTU 1999
https://youtu.be/v3bZwSXjtCM
(Pres. Clinton, post impeachment, awaiting Senate trial)
PS
Look at SOTU 2020 (2:18 to 2:20) again. It appears to me that, as POTUS hands the folder to VP and SOTH, he sees her hand extended but ignores it. Maybe another “first” for this President.
It also appears to me that, unlike his two previous SOTU speeches (and those of Presidents before him), he did not extend his hand to the VP or SOTH. The VP, likewise, did not extend his hand to POTUS, as though he knew beforehand that POTUS was going to withhold the handshake.
That left SOTH to extend her hand and be visibly snubbed by POTUS in front of the full Congress, guests, and the Nation. I don’t believe for one minute that the snub was an oversight on the part of POTUS. And it set the tone and stage for SOTH’s action at the end.
Overall, I think there is enough childishness going on in Washington for everyone to take some credit.
Tar and Feathers in Revolutionary America
https://revolution.h-net.msu.edu/essays/irvin.feathers.html
In one sense, it was like a pro football game: the foul is frequently called on the player who throws “the second punch”.
Watch the first couple of minutes of these three State of the Union speeches and tell me if you see a difference.
SOTU 2018
https://youtu.be/53tqxdYlspg
SOTU 2019
https://youtu.be/w4FyVGtMa4s
SOTU 2020
https://youtu.be/zNECVmfJtxc
Also, consider the SOTU speeches of previous Presidents. (I’m talking about the few moments immediately after the President steps onto the dais.)
SOTU 2016
https://youtu.be/nyxP68SJYOc
SOTU 2015
https://youtu.be/cse5cCGuHmE
SOTU 2008
https://youtu.be/zYYSbhgztgg
SOTU 1999
https://youtu.be/v3bZwSXjtCM
(Pres. Clinton, post impeachment, awaiting Senate trial)
PS
Look at SOTU 2020 (2:18 to 2:20) again. It appears to me that, as POTUS hands the folder to VP and SOTH, he sees her hand extended but ignores it. Maybe another “first” for this President.
It also appears to me that, unlike his two previous SOTU speeches (and those of Presidents before him), he did not extend his hand to the VP or SOTH. The VP, likewise, did not extend his hand to POTUS, as though he knew beforehand that POTUS was going to withhold the handshake.
That left SOTH to extend her hand and be visibly snubbed by POTUS in front of the full Congress, guests, and the Nation. I don’t believe for one minute that the snub was an oversight on the part of POTUS. And it set the tone and stage for SOTH’s action at the end.
Overall, I think there is enough childishness going on in Washington for everyone to take some credit.
In the spring of 1766, John Gilchrist, a Norfolk merchant andship-owner, came to believe that Captain William Smith had reported hissmuggling activities to British authorities. In retribution, Gilchristand several accomplices captured Smith and, as he reported, "dawbed mybody and face all over with tar and afterwards threw feathers on me." Smith's assailants, which included the mayor of Norfolk, then carted him"through every street in town,"...
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CPO Nate S.
Sgt Bob Leonard I like this response:
(1) Evidence-based
(2) Non-emotional
(3) This non-partisan statement - "Overall, I think there is enough childishness going on in Washington for everyone to take some credit."
(4) Historical perspective - The "Tar and Feathers in Revolutionary America" article was good to read on many levels!
Thank you!!!
(1) Evidence-based
(2) Non-emotional
(3) This non-partisan statement - "Overall, I think there is enough childishness going on in Washington for everyone to take some credit."
(4) Historical perspective - The "Tar and Feathers in Revolutionary America" article was good to read on many levels!
Thank you!!!
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