SOTU Ripping up POTUS Speech - Is this worthy of censure?

Both were childish behaviord

Precedent and context matters


Tar and Feathers in Revolutionary America

https://revolution.h-net.msu.edu/essays/irvin.feathers.html


In one sense, it was like a pro football game: the foul is frequently called on the player who throws “the second punch”.


Watch the first couple of minutes of these three State of the Union speeches and tell me if you see a difference.


SOTU 2018

https://youtu.be/53tqxdYlspg



SOTU 2019

https://youtu.be/w4FyVGtMa4s



SOTU 2020

https://youtu.be/zNECVmfJtxc


Also, consider the SOTU speeches of previous Presidents. (I’m talking about the few moments immediately after the President steps onto the dais.)

SOTU 2016
https://youtu.be/nyxP68SJYOc

SOTU 2015
https://youtu.be/cse5cCGuHmE

SOTU 2008
https://youtu.be/zYYSbhgztgg

SOTU 1999
https://youtu.be/v3bZwSXjtCM
(Pres. Clinton, post impeachment, awaiting Senate trial)


PS
Look at SOTU 2020 (2:18 to 2:20) again. It appears to me that, as POTUS hands the folder to VP and SOTH, he sees her hand extended but ignores it. Maybe another “first” for this President.

It also appears to me that, unlike his two previous SOTU speeches (and those of Presidents before him), he did not extend his hand to the VP or SOTH. The VP, likewise, did not extend his hand to POTUS, as though he knew beforehand that POTUS was going to withhold the handshake.

That left SOTH to extend her hand and be visibly snubbed by POTUS in front of the full Congress, guests, and the Nation. I don’t believe for one minute that the snub was an oversight on the part of POTUS. And it set the tone and stage for SOTH’s action at the end.

Overall, I think there is enough childishness going on in Washington for everyone to take some credit.

Let's understand something here. Now that the president of the United States of America has officially been acquitted, I have the following things to say about this ordeal. To the members of the GOP, every single one of you, are COWARDS, TRAITORS, CORRUPT, COMPROMISED, PIECES OF TRASH, SCUM, etc. You chose to acquit this president, who beyond a shadow of doubt, BROKE THE LAW when he gave the order to freeze the money going to Ukraine. You chose to acquit this president despite the fact the Office of Management and Budget, and the Government Accountability Office stated that this president’s actions were indeed ILLEGAL.

Because of the actions you have chosen, the following events have transpired. First, your vote to acquit this president has allowed himself, and every president AFTER him to be ABOVE THE LAW. No longer can the words of Richard Nixon be used to describe how the people of this Country should function under the rule of law. The president should now be considered to be in the same realm as a Monarch, however, if you think I will ever call this so-called president” your majesty”, you are sorely mistaken. Second. When you acquitted this president, you failed to realize that when the president violated the Impoundment Control Act, he also gave every single member of the Legislative Branch the finger. Under the Impoundment Control Act, if the president is ever to intervene in the issuing of funds from Congress to a designated entity, the president has to inform Congress of his intentions. This is something he clearly did not do. Yet despite this fact, you voted to acquit him. Third, when you voted to acquit this president, you forever forfeited the ability to hold a SITTING PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE OF ANY WRONG DOING! Now that the current president is untouchable, the next president, and the one after, etc, will be as well. So let’s say, in the future, Hillary Clinton becomes president, and you go all out in your attempt to have her removed from office. You even go as far as to bring back previous cases from the dead(the emails, Benghazi, the server, Uranium One, all of which she was cleared of by the way). The end result will be that YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED!!! WHY? Because when you acquitted the current president, you also established a historical PRECEDENT that can and will be challenged in the Supreme Court if necessary.

Your decision to acquit this president set events in motion that either you failed to contemplate, or you simply do not care of any existing consequences. Whatever the case may be, understand that is far from over. The reason this president has been acquitted, is because every single member of the GOP has been in one way or another COMPROMISED by the NRA, the Russians, China, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and possible other organizations and Country’s persons like myself are not currently aware of. That and your COWARDICE allowed you to cringe in fear of the president, who is also a COWARD, a RACIST, a BULLY, and a NEOLITHIC INCOMPETENT DOTARD. Your actions on that day you decided to cast your vote to acquit this president DESTROYED DEMOCRACY to the tune of your THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE. Make no mistake, the AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL MAKE YOU PAY FOR THE ATROCITY YOU HAVE COMMITTED, SO HELP US GOD!!!!!

It was just a show. The refusal to shake hands, ripping up the speech, it was all just a show to get the rubes riled up. Nothing more. A whole bunch of people fell for it, most likely the people who think their vote means something.

Considering how the two branches of our Federal Govt seem to be behaving, the efforts to castigate whomever just wastes their and our energies. Though both a bit irritated and bemused, I frankly could care less. I’m rather more concerned with the plunge our markets are taking and the mammoth businesses cutting orders from suppliers. It’s also.a perfect storm hitting Boeing now having to cut at lest 10 percent in employees- Max issues and now negative sales of orders of planes other than the Max.

Nancy and torn paper vis a vis Donald’s actions pale in comparison.

I find it funny that 70% of the people in this forum think that what Nancy did was somehow bad, and yet the president knowingly, willingly, and with malice of forethought asked a foreign agency to act on his behalf to win the election.

AND THAT IS NOT AN ISSUE?

We need people in charge of this country who are willing to try to work together regardless of personal feelings for the other. Tearing up POTUS's speech just to prove a point is childish and a slap in the face to all who were mentioned in the speech. It just shows that the Democrats are willing to hurt the American people rather than find compromising ground with the President. I for one do not want that kind of leader in charge of choices that can affect my future or my children's future.

They have all been so impotent on what the people need that they totally ignored this virus until it bit us. Good job politicians.. way to be proactive. DO YOUR JOB

It was certainly childish and disrespectful. Censure might be a step too far though.

I am of the opinion that Pelosi is guilty of the crime of willfully destroying official documents. That she did it is indisputable. The only element of proof in question is the characterization of the document. Was it an “official document”? I say yes. POTUS is constitutionally required to submit an annual report to Congress on the state of the union. A speech is not required. I have heard arguments that what he handed Pelosi was just a “courtesy copy” of the speech and therefore not an official document. Does anyone really believe Trump went out of his way to do Nancy a courtesy? If so, why give one to Pence? Pence unquestionably knew what was in it and I’d bet dollars to donuts he sat through one or more rehearsals. So whats the point of going through the motion of handing Pence a courtesy copy? So if not a courtesy copy, what was it that Trump handed over? Was it the official report? One copy handed to the Senate and the other to the House? I think so. The only person who can really answer that is Trump and he made clear when he said that Nancy, by tearing up the document, broke the law. My guess is that if Trump had not handed her that report, Nancy would be demanding impeachment for failure to render the constitutionally required report. That said, we know she won’t be prosecuted. We only prosecute the little people for that sort of stuff. But she should be punished in some way, if only by censure.