Posted on Nov 8, 2013
Tension between National Guard and Active Duty Army?
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I have served in both capacities and even on active duty while in the Guard. I constantly hear Active Duty gripe about the National Guard, and yet even worse I have also heard National Guard gripe about the National Guard. I am very pound of my unit's achievements in the past and while I have served with them. We have fought and lost great men just like our counterparts in the Active Duty Army. I make sure to crush it where I find it. We didn't get the name of Roosevelt's SS for nothing. We literally shredded the German's 1st SS in WWII and later deployed twice to OIF. <div><br></div><div>How do you approach this situation, whether you're in the National Guard or Regular Army? Or are you guilty of doing this? I was in the past. </div>
Army
Army National Guard
Army Reserve
Edited >1 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 202
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I'll tell you what in the early early 90's we the Texas National Guard went to Ft Hood alot, we still was on the M-60A3 and we got the Regular Active Duty Army's RESPECT because Texans can Tank...
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I am surprised tension still exists since so many guard units have been deployed and integrated with active units. During the Vietnam Era, NG stood for "nookie grabber" and guardsmens were called "Jodie", the guy back home who stole your girl while you were off to war. It never happened to me, my Jodie was my girls college professor, who I ironically, had as a professor many years later. After the course, I confronted him and called him Jodie, and told him what it meant. He could have cared less, but I got it off my chest. Maybe there is still some of this Jodie stuff still going on, along with the fact they are still on active on weekends and two weeks in the year when not deployed. Still, I thought deployment would have removed some of the tension.
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CPT (Join to see)
It will always be there. It is not bad as along as the rivalry doesn't turn nasty. Most of the time it does though.
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One thing is for sure, the Guard and reserves make up a huge portion of the military and also a huge part of personnel deployed overseas. The active component needs to get use to the idea and those that want to bad mouth their reserve brothers and sisters are only making it harder for cohesion to take place. When my Guard unit replaced a unit of the 101st in Iraq, I felt nothing but professionals replacing professionals. They did an outstanding job and we did an outstanding job after they left. I was well briefed on how operations worked by professional soldiers. I tried to pass on the same to our relief. That's the bottom line. Be professional and work as one.
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It is a service wide phenomena that I have observed between Marine Reservists, Guard and Army Reserve and their AD counterparts. I think some of it stems from the large Per Diem payments that Guard and Reservists get when on Title 10 Partial Mobilization and GWOT funds when on Mobilization Orders. So you have reservists and Guardsmen doing the same thing as their AD Counterparts and getting that "juicy" per diem reimbursement payment when they De-Mob and that has cause both jealousy and a certain amount of resentment from the AD counterparts.
It has also caused a certain amount of Per Diem fraud by Guardsmen and Reservists, and an overzealous attempt by the accounting departments (DFAS) of the Army and the Marine Corps to "recoup" Per Diem payments that DFAS and the DOD did not think were "rated" by where the service member accepted orders to active duty. The PLEAD (place where entered active duty).
Some Reservists and Guardsmen have been hit with demands to repay the government tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in per diem payments collected over several GWOT deployments and activations. The rules regarding PLEA are actually very unclear in their application and I think the government is overreaching in going back and auditing reservists and guardsmen Per Diem payments going back to 2007, and now demanding repayment. When the money was flowing for GWOT to units, nobody was looking at the PLEAD issue that closely, then when Obama became President and the GWOT funds dried up, all of a sudden DFAS and the Services got "stingy" and started to go back and audit orders, and apply twisted interpretations of when a PLEAD changes, based upon where you "actually" received your GWOT activation orders, not based upon where your residence was or where you lived, had a mortgage, kids in school, tax records, etc. These are the traditional legal definitions of a person's legal domicile.
I personally have known and spoken with Guardsmen, and Army/Marine reservists who are very bitter, that when the country needed their skills and service (many in combat units), they were told they would be paid per diem in addition to their regular pay, and years later they are told those tens of thousands of dollars they were paid in per diem are now being demanded back, with harassing and threatening phone calls. it is an unbelievable situation that only Congress can remedy.
It has also caused a certain amount of Per Diem fraud by Guardsmen and Reservists, and an overzealous attempt by the accounting departments (DFAS) of the Army and the Marine Corps to "recoup" Per Diem payments that DFAS and the DOD did not think were "rated" by where the service member accepted orders to active duty. The PLEAD (place where entered active duty).
Some Reservists and Guardsmen have been hit with demands to repay the government tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in per diem payments collected over several GWOT deployments and activations. The rules regarding PLEA are actually very unclear in their application and I think the government is overreaching in going back and auditing reservists and guardsmen Per Diem payments going back to 2007, and now demanding repayment. When the money was flowing for GWOT to units, nobody was looking at the PLEAD issue that closely, then when Obama became President and the GWOT funds dried up, all of a sudden DFAS and the Services got "stingy" and started to go back and audit orders, and apply twisted interpretations of when a PLEAD changes, based upon where you "actually" received your GWOT activation orders, not based upon where your residence was or where you lived, had a mortgage, kids in school, tax records, etc. These are the traditional legal definitions of a person's legal domicile.
I personally have known and spoken with Guardsmen, and Army/Marine reservists who are very bitter, that when the country needed their skills and service (many in combat units), they were told they would be paid per diem in addition to their regular pay, and years later they are told those tens of thousands of dollars they were paid in per diem are now being demanded back, with harassing and threatening phone calls. it is an unbelievable situation that only Congress can remedy.
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Capt Lance Gallardo
CPT Michael Bardem - I used the adjective term "juicy" Per Diem, because that is term one of my Combat MOS (and twice deployed to combat in OIF and OEF) Reservist said when he desribed with Irony how per diem was viewed in his particular reserve unit. I represented two of the reservists who were caught up in an auditing of orders and per diem payments when it was discovered that one of the AD members of his unit had been over claiming Per Diem and then asking members of the unit for kick backs. He of course mainly preyed on junior ranks (e4 and below) and he guessed that no one would "rat him out." His per diem fraud was discovered at DFAS and he became a fugitive, and the entire reserve unit was audited for per diem fraud claims. The per diem covered hotel and living expenses and other incidentals during the pre-mob and de-mob, when the member was not drawing com rats or staying in government quarters. Each Mobilization under GWOT orders would often pay an additional $6k plus in legitimate reimbursable expenses, while the reservist were staying in hotel rooms, meals, etc. (assuming they met the distance requirements from their HOR - that was also a subject of fraud) and reporting to their reserve centers (in pre-mob and de-mob time), plus incidentals. Per diem, both legitimate and abuse of per diem has been a hot topic not just for Jags and lawyers, but for many honest service members who have seen their lives turned upside-down, by overzealous accountants and finance officers in the Army and Marine Corps eager to find fraudulent or mistaken payments of per diem to those who did not rate it under the DOD Travel regs. It is especially galling to those who spent a great deal of their deployed time "outside the wire" in combat to come home and years later, be hit with a thousands of dollars demand by their service branch or DFAS (typically both) for Per Diem "overpayments" under the convoluted regulations that govern your PLEAD (place where entered active duty).
Reservists often find out about deployment opportunities when they are on ADOS orders and AD units are looking to fill in billets and a reservists who can meet a need, volunteers for the deployment and is cut order while at the place where he/she is going to start serving his/hers new activation orders. She does not have a break in AD duty time but goes from ADOS orders to GWOT Title 10 "Partial Mobilization" orders, and she maintains her home/rent/mortgage with her kids and spouse at her HOR and she does not change her legal domicile which is outside the statutory limit to receive Per Diem. So DFAS and the finance officers have arbitrarily come up with this new interpretation of PLEAD that is now saying if your did not go home and receive your orders there and start your travel from your HOR to where you are mobilized and ordered to report to, you have incurred a PLEAD change. You are then "disallowed all of your per diem" that you were paid for that particular deployment. So your place where entered active duty is based upon where you actually received your orders, rather than where your legal domicile is, where your pay your taxes, your mortgage, where your spouse and kids live, where your kids go to school, where your spouse works, it is really a crazy and unsupported in law interpretation, that is leading to intense distress and financial hardship on Guard and reserve warriors who were there for this country when we needed them and will need them again soon I am sure). The President or Sec Dev or Congress could have remedied this horrible situation by changing the law or the DOD travel regs to make it crystal clear that your plead is tied to your home of record, not where you picked up your MOB order, but to date no one has alleviated the suffering of tens of thousands of Guard and reservists who have been caught up in this nightmare.
http://www.stripes.com/news/marine-reservists-the-latest-left-on-the-hook-for-erroneous-payments-1.263842
Reservists often find out about deployment opportunities when they are on ADOS orders and AD units are looking to fill in billets and a reservists who can meet a need, volunteers for the deployment and is cut order while at the place where he/she is going to start serving his/hers new activation orders. She does not have a break in AD duty time but goes from ADOS orders to GWOT Title 10 "Partial Mobilization" orders, and she maintains her home/rent/mortgage with her kids and spouse at her HOR and she does not change her legal domicile which is outside the statutory limit to receive Per Diem. So DFAS and the finance officers have arbitrarily come up with this new interpretation of PLEAD that is now saying if your did not go home and receive your orders there and start your travel from your HOR to where you are mobilized and ordered to report to, you have incurred a PLEAD change. You are then "disallowed all of your per diem" that you were paid for that particular deployment. So your place where entered active duty is based upon where you actually received your orders, rather than where your legal domicile is, where your pay your taxes, your mortgage, where your spouse and kids live, where your kids go to school, where your spouse works, it is really a crazy and unsupported in law interpretation, that is leading to intense distress and financial hardship on Guard and reserve warriors who were there for this country when we needed them and will need them again soon I am sure). The President or Sec Dev or Congress could have remedied this horrible situation by changing the law or the DOD travel regs to make it crystal clear that your plead is tied to your home of record, not where you picked up your MOB order, but to date no one has alleviated the suffering of tens of thousands of Guard and reservists who have been caught up in this nightmare.
http://www.stripes.com/news/marine-reservists-the-latest-left-on-the-hook-for-erroneous-payments-1.263842
Marine reservists the latest left on the hook for 'erroneous payments'
Marine Corps reservists are the latest group of servicemembers and civilian Defense Department employees in dispute with the military over whether certain allowances were properly paid or have to be repaid.
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Sir,
I work in a job that is full of veterans of all branches and statuses. Of course teasing occurs with National Guard and Active Army guys, myself being Active. But, at the end of the day we are all serving in whatever capacity. I think it is just a matter of choice. I personally feel that I can't do the NG. I am very big on dedication and my time and I feel I can do that by being part time. Personal opinion though. But, I don't not judge friend of mine who have gone Guard, until they cry about not being active lol!
I work in a job that is full of veterans of all branches and statuses. Of course teasing occurs with National Guard and Active Army guys, myself being Active. But, at the end of the day we are all serving in whatever capacity. I think it is just a matter of choice. I personally feel that I can't do the NG. I am very big on dedication and my time and I feel I can do that by being part time. Personal opinion though. But, I don't not judge friend of mine who have gone Guard, until they cry about not being active lol!
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Suspended Profile
When I was in the AD Army as a 95B (Military Police) I had a dim view of the reserve and National Guard, as well as the Air Force. None appeared to adhere to the same standards we were held to, so I held them in low regard.
I later learned that my priorities were skewed. The other components are just as deserving of respect and admiration, even if they're a little lax in some areas. Most guardsmen I know are professionals, even if they put their hands in their pockets and lean against walls. They know their jobs well and are just as serious about doing them, and about defending our country. The names of guardsmen & reservists pepper the rosters of those who've fought & died in OEF, OIF, and every conflict this country has been involved in prior.
Anyway, in an ironic twist I'm not only a guardsman, but also on the Air side. Have been for the past 13 years. Do I adhere to the same standard of professionalism as I did when I was AD Army? I try to, though I do admit I've probably slacked off a bit in some areas.
I later learned that my priorities were skewed. The other components are just as deserving of respect and admiration, even if they're a little lax in some areas. Most guardsmen I know are professionals, even if they put their hands in their pockets and lean against walls. They know their jobs well and are just as serious about doing them, and about defending our country. The names of guardsmen & reservists pepper the rosters of those who've fought & died in OEF, OIF, and every conflict this country has been involved in prior.
Anyway, in an ironic twist I'm not only a guardsman, but also on the Air side. Have been for the past 13 years. Do I adhere to the same standard of professionalism as I did when I was AD Army? I try to, though I do admit I've probably slacked off a bit in some areas.
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Having been an Active Duty Soldier for several years in Field Arty, I transitioned into the Army Reserves when I finally married. I retired last year as a Reservist. I have done deployments both Active and Reserve. I switched from Arty into Signal when I left Active Duty.
I can assure pretty much anyone who questions the capabilities of Reservists and Guardsmen compared to Active Duty, that the Reservists and Guardsmen have a distinct edge on Active component when it comes to knowing their MOS and being more technically proficient. Note that this is an observation, not a lashing out at Active Component troops. PT studs...we have those lunk heads too. Usually they're too focused on gym time to be of any use for anything of purpose other than amping up the Unit's overall stats, much to the CO's genuine approval....I digress.
I deployed with Reserve Commo groups who were the cat's meow when it came to standing up Comms anywhere they went. They are skilled at troubleshooting, maintaining and just all around subject matter experts. Were they nerdy? You bet! However, they never had issues that they couldn't fix. They received great trades for services...adding extra lines, signing over hard to find equipment, hasty repairs for civilians and whatnot.
Active component just couldn't do the same technical activities as these troops. The reason for their success was due to the fact that many Reservists pay their bills doing similar, often more technically challenging, jobs on the outside. They often own businesses that specialize in all the nerdy little facets that make networks actually work. They are trained in the newest, most modern IT equipment, which the average Soldier only reads about. These guys work with it. Even the motorpool mechanics were mechanics on the outside. Our motorpool was very self-reliant, if they couldn't order something, they would fabricate the piece and drive on with their mission. Is it surprising that they can perform extremely well? Not in my opinion.
One of the Reserve groups who run Comms down range, manages contracts and projects. They are extremely successful because the higher ranking officers actually are Civil Engineers, Business Owners, DOD Contractors, Network Engineers and deal with contracting and timelines daily. They know what a valid list of materials should contain, or how a project can most effectively be managed. They know the regulations required for installation of equipment in virtually any facility. It's what they do. They are never bamboozeled by the flim flam that civilian contractors feed them about a job. I've seen Active Component take Civilian advise as acceptable, but when I made a call to my boss to identify that something fishy was about to happen with the subordinate Unit's approval, it was quickly squashed and done correctly. The point is, knowledge is critical when dollars are being spent.
I was not too overly excited when I signed up for the Reserves, but the end result was that I found a great deal of respect for the contributions they add to any mission they are assigned to. Sadly, they do not receive that respect from the Active counterpart when they arrive in theater.
Do the Reservists whine more than Active counterpart? No. They really do not. They often have uniform infractions that are quickly remedied. They have attitude issues many times (probably because they run and manage things in their profession at home). They are quickly put into check. So yes, they have their quirks. Given the choice for the technical elements of a mission, I'd take Reservists. For handing out ass whoopins, I'd roll with the Active component. Everyone plays a particular or parallel role. Without each group supporting one another, I dare say that our overall effectiveness would greatly decrease.
I love all troops, Reserve, National Guard and Active Component equally. I thoroughly enjoy when branches merge and work together. We had the opportunity to work with Marines, Navy and Air Force. It made my final deployment something to look back on and feel extraordinarily proud of the time that I served with them. Will there always be rivalry? Absolutely. However, when a mission needs doing, we all chip in and make great things happen! That's what makes the United States Servicemen and Women special and better than any other force on the face of the Earth.
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I really see this as a non-issue, Sir. There is always going be griping and ribbing between the two just as there will always be rivalry between siblings. Because that's what we are.
Now there are some instances where soldiers believe their counterparts to be less trained or less motivated because they are uninformed or have had bad experiences. In this case, all it takes is a casual correction by someone, like yourself, who is better informed. I honestly doubt that an active duty soldier and a national guard soldier would treat the other malevolently no matter what the misinformation was. Besides, they just need be reminded that both Active Duty and National Guard are far above the reservists, chair force, jarheads, and swabbies (Calm down, it's a joke!).
Now there are some instances where soldiers believe their counterparts to be less trained or less motivated because they are uninformed or have had bad experiences. In this case, all it takes is a casual correction by someone, like yourself, who is better informed. I honestly doubt that an active duty soldier and a national guard soldier would treat the other malevolently no matter what the misinformation was. Besides, they just need be reminded that both Active Duty and National Guard are far above the reservists, chair force, jarheads, and swabbies (Calm down, it's a joke!).
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Its a human nature, the tension is going to be there whether we like it or not and it goes to all services.
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